Zoom's 4ft system

looking good Ashley. just a quick one , that heater / diffuser contraption - there are many diffusers out there that are similar just for C02 breakdown, but those have a few bio balls in the chamber that spin like crazy with the water being pumped into the chamber - if you had some space in the fitting you have would adding a few bio balls in there help create more turbulance in there.

 

Makes sence @Zoom... I am busy thinking about what I am gonna do in mine, but you and @morris have given me loads to think off...

 

Yes, the commercially available CO2 inline diffuser do have bioballs in them. If I were to make this unit big enough to hold balls I would have had to use a 75mm pipe. I was also scared as to how the plastic may react to the heater touching them.

 

@Zoom,
Question #1:
Why are you dosing N (nitrogen)?Aqua soil is so full of N and P,you won't see a deficiency for a year.I would only add traces with every water change and only add K when I see a deficiency.The Aqua soil is a complete substrate,it contains everything the plants need except K and traces.
Question #2:
How long has the tank been running in it's present state?If it is the first or second week you have too much light or too long a photo period.Gradually increase and lengthen the photo period over the first month.

You should also consider adding activated carbon to the filter,to remove the the massive amount of dissolved organics from the water and you should ideally be
doing a water change every day for the first week to help the carbon along.

I think you mentioned in a earlier post that you add tank water too the drop checker,is this correct?
If that is the case,you are getting a false reading on the drop checker.Tank water contains other compounds or ions(acids from wood,organics from the substrate,phosphates from fish food,etc.) that will influence the drop checker.What you want is a fluid with a known hardness (Kh) and no ions or compounds to influence the checker.

Hope this helps.

 

Hi @Rudi

I will investigate the N and P issue you raise. But surely i would still need N and P in the water column? As far as I was aware, not all plants are heavy root feeders, and there would still be a need for N and P in the water column?

Your comment about lighting is noted. Timers have been changed to a 6hr photo period. Tank has been running for 10 days in current state.

The drop checker fluid told me to use tank water... ?? ?

 

As said above, tank has been running now for 10 days and the growth I am seeing already over the past 5 days is amazing. My swords had all their leaves cut off prior to planting, and they all have new leaves. My Tiger lotus which was only planted as a bulb is covered in leaves.

Crypts all showing new leaves.

Sadly some of the annubias is melting. Might be too much light for them, esp the ones closer to the surface.

 

Being heavy root feeders is not the point.Your stems has roots as well and will use them to get nutrients.The N and P is already in the water column via fish food and the nitrogen cycle.You are adding stuff that is not needed and above all,you are adding it to a un-cycled tank.In this case the substrate,not the filter.And your plant mass is way to small to be giving full dossis any way.

I know and it is wrong.Run this by Prof.Dirk next you speak with him.The question is..."How and why does a drop checker work."Google it.

 

@Zoom,I'm not telling you all this to be negative or whatever.
Aqua soil is so much different than anything you ever used it's not even funny.It is THE best substrate money can buy right now,but unfortunately it comes with rules and methods to use it correctly.If we don't follow these methods we get in to trouble and I can testify to that.I didn't follow the method and now I sit with a tank going through a black out.
I'm not b s ing you in any way.

 

I agree with Rudi on this... Aquasoil needs some TLC in the beginning, to allow your tank to flourish later on! But you only have one bag in here don't you? Anyway, besides the point. There are instructions in the bag. You should read them. I think that a lot of people are struggling with BGA and huge hair algae infestations because of the Aquasoil leaching so much in the first few weeks.

I have the same issues. Except in the cube, which got big water changes almost daily because of the wood leaching tannins. It's the only tank that hasn't had huge algae outbreaks. Well, I have has some outbreaks, but that's because of my own stupidity...

On the NPK thing... The Aquasoil leaches N and P into the water for a while, then once the cycle is complete, then you only need to add Potassium and traces. Plants will feed through the roots, make no mistake. Once the aquasoil starts to deteriorate, you will need to top up with N and P. But for at least the first year to 18 months you will only need to dose Potassium and Traces. Unless you have a massive plant mass which you don't, at this point.

This is the reason that ADA recommends Bright K and the Green Brighty Step series. Only traces and Potassium for the first year to 18 months. They recommend this route for a VERY good reason. I also made this mistake and added NPK. I got serious algae issues. Going back to Brighty K and the step series, has improved my tank condition 10 fold!!

 

Hi Sean J,
Using the "dry-start method" should then reduce the amount of N & P leaching back into the water.
The ADA tanks are also heavily stocked with plants from day one.

 

The Dry Start method is a good option, but there are not too many people with the patience to do that. I would struggle, I can assure you! LOL!

But yes, the key to the whole thing is the plant mass. This is the real problem we face n South Africa at the moment, and it is something which I, and a few other people, are looking at changing. Plants are not easily available from stores, and when they are, they cost an arm and a leg per stem. Plant mass is one crucially important aspect in starting an Aquasoil based tank. Takashi Amano has truck loads of plants at his disposal, as do guys like Tom Barr, George Farmer, etc... This is one of the things I am really looking at changing though. It's all well and good selling the products, but if you haven't got the plants, it's pointless...

I would still do the water changes. It's a big thing. Maintenance is critical for ADA tanks. Or any planted tank out there for that matter. Maintenance is what makes or breaks you in this game.

The dry start will definitely work, and I think in this country it's probably more important to actually do a dry start, because of the limited plant mass. Build up the plant mass to a point where you just have to fill the tank to view your completed aquascape. It's definitely a really good option actually!

The problem with a dry start, is the Co2. You need it. It's vitally important. If you don't have available Co2 in the tank once it's filled, then your plants will most likely melt away... But if you do have co2 then I think it's definitely a good start...

You will still have to do the water changes though...

 

Brief update, as well as assistance required from @azurekoi, @Rudi, @Sean J and @Henk Hugo

Inline heater abandoned. Been struggling to keep a steady temp, and further investigation discovered heater not turnin off. I believe this is because the thermostat is housed in the part of the heater that is sitting out of the heater "contraption". 1 jager heater tossed.

So back to heater in the tank, and CO2 back in via diffuser. 2 cannisters are still on 1 line though.


The other issue I am having is more fert related. I have currently only dosed this tank with trace, K and then the innitial NPK. Based on Rudi's warning on overdosing macros, I havent dosed anything else since the innitial dose last weekend.

I have now shortened the photoperiod, and ive actually also turned 2 of the tubes off.

Whilst fiddling with the tank this evening I noticed the gsa on glass is getting rather bad, and Ive also noticed bba growing rather quickly on the anubias. According to the drop checker, my CO2 is within the correct range, however I can drop the CO2 down if need be.

What further advice do you guys reckon?

Oh, and I followed Rudis advice and added carbon to the filter.

 

Ashley I still need drop those crypts off, Sorry I know I was supposed to do this last weekend but I have been writing exams the whole of this week and its been taking its toll on me... I know excuses excuses lol...:wacko:

 

No stress @hein24

Whenever you are free and coming out this way. I'm in no hurry.

 

Ok the first thing I would do is add some extra flow to your tank. Bba could be caused by insufficient co2 levels, not coming out of the diffuser, but from having different dissolved amount concentrations in the water. So extra flow will help dissolve the co2 into the water even more...

I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I'm tired...

 

If my addled brain remembers correctly,you got no extra circulation in the tank apart from what is provided by your Filters right? What is the flow volume per hour through your tank per hour? Sucsessfull planted tanks rely on good distribution of the CO2.... Maybe look at beefing up your flow in the tank with an extra wave maker - the Sunsun ones are cheap,yet reliable - Seio ones are nice too...

 

BBA is caused by many things and the hardest part is that its almost impossible to treat just one cause.. there are just way too many variables! eg how mant people increase flowe aerate at night ect and still get BBA? lots imo.. just remember the basics before fiddling with the tank too much.
1 make sure temp is not too high and constant
2 make sure filter is cleaned regulary and correctly and use of bio supplement such ML special blend is used after water changes
3 GH KH PH are all stable and in good acceptable ranges
4 constant and stable fert regime
5 if you never had bba and you geting only now then look what has changed. added more fish plants need a trim stopping flow?
once all of these are addressed and you are spot treating and killing the algae on a daily or regular basis. im almost sure you wont find anymore problems as the tank will get in equilibrium very fast because you giving it what it needs...STABILITY

 

Zoom when I just stared running pressurized co2 I also had issues with bba... After trying to figure out the source I came to the conclusion that The distribution of co2 through out the tank was the issue.

I added a seio prop 530 and it seemed to stop the spreading. I had to manually kill/remove the bba that already grew though.

What I done was position the flow pump mid tank(to avoid too much surface agitation) with the co2 diffuser in line below the pump. By doing this I could literally see co2 bubbles flying through out the tank. Many of them not even reaching the surface. Worked for me, it's a solution worth considering.

Best of luck


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Very true words right there, amen brother.

Just a question, how does higher temps contribute to bba? I was forced to raise my temps a while back because of the discus and I have noticed a few pieces of bba coming up but nothing drastic. Would be keen to understand the relationship.




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it has something to do with water being able to hold different volumes of dissolved co2 at different water temps..might be fractional?

so its the higher the water temp the lower the solubility of gas... but its more important to keep gas supply and temp constant
HTH