Planning my sump.

Still waiting on the dimensions of your tank.

 

True. I bought into Prof's argument that it is better with the 'big bore'

He gave it already and it is an existing 2 foot tank.

 

@Lowflyer
Sorry, missed your post. No, I must have been busy doing some experiment when that pic was taken. My actual level in the sump is 80 mm below the rim. It is cutting it very fine! It overflows to about 1 mm from the top of the sump! Tested...

 

Went through your thread 3 times and his own thread and there is no mention of glass thickness anywhere?
Got the dimensions though thanx

 

This is the mesh that is not rigid enough. I tried to build a frame for it, but gave up.



This is the sponge mat RFS is referring to ?

 

Nope it's a lot thinner than that. It's about 2mm thick and it's more like floss really not sponge.
I did a 3D image of a sump at 460lx300hx300w and with a return chamber at 150mm(W), the rest is really small you are looking at 95mm if you have 3 compartments in the Up down Up down method.

 

I got this from @Jungle Aquatics and it serves the purpose well and give extra mechanical filtering. Amazing how much dirt it collects!

@Jungle Aquatics

 

I'm was talking about if he uses egg crated for the separator panels to just put a thin little piece in after the bio balls or ceramic rings or what ever he might use in there to make sure the ceramic rings stay in their little area and not go through the egg crate to the next little area. Not as a sponge filter
The stuff I'm on about would seriously suck at removing anything from your water.
Just to clear that up...

 

OK, he might want to go for that, as the stuff I use is expensive. Where do you get it, what do one call it and price?

 

No clue I think it's the stuff they cover UGF with. I saw it at a non sponsor once and asked him what they use it for and he said it's to put ontop of your UGF under the substrate. Kinda like the floss in those corner filters but a flat sheet of it...

 

OK it's dirty but this is kinda what I'm talking about


The stuff looks like that but you can buy it in a sheet.

 

@TomK No worries man. Hahaha! That is cutting it fine but if it works, then that's all good

 

Ok my dimensions on my main tank are 920lx380hx380w

 

Hey guys, on this topic how does having an overflow box prevent your tank from overflowing when the power goes out? its a closed loop and the header is off?

 

@TomK I'm sorry for posting this on your thread. It will probably get deleted and I'll removed from TASA.

Apparently I got some bad ratings coz of this post. EEEK Suppose I should prove things like that when posting them.
These are my "Ratings/Reputation"
@ No1, I'm not sure if you where talking about the Siphon break or the bubbles?
RATING 1. "biggest load of BS i have heard in a VERY long time!"
Please visit the link below to see where my "load of BS" came from. If you where talking about the Siphon break.

The small holes in the return line AKA siphon break, Anti Siphon holes.
Link 1.http://theaquariumwiki.com/DIY_Plumbing_101#Anti-Siphon_Holes
Link 2. http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html
So IMO I'm right about this.

The other 2 or 3 (depends on, if he/she was also talking about the Bubbles and not the siphon break)
I fully understand why I got a bad rep on that, and I appologise for my lack of info and asumtions.
"Do you believe the stuff you write?" No But I do believe the stuff other people write, silly me.
and
"Utter Hogwash I'm afraid...." Thank you for pionting that out.

This is how I got so badly missinformed.:embarrest:

1.I read this a while ago somwhere.
"Micro bubbles are miniature gas bubbles of less than 50 microns diameter in water.
The micro bubbles, which mostly contain oxygen or air, can remain suspended in the water for an extended period.
Gradually, the gas within the micro bubbles dissolves into the water and the bubbles disappear."

So according to my obviously misinformed opinion Micro bubbles are not the only or primary way for Oxygen to get into water but they do contribute.
And Air stones do get sold for this perpous all over the place.

2. The Sump System. The part they call the "Bubble Trap(baffles to reduce micro-bubbles in water)" Seems to me (I'm obviously wrong) by installing one of these in your sump you can created an Anaerobic area (low oxygen inviroment)for Anaerobic Organisms to grow in.
So I assumed :stupido2: Micro Bubbles also carry oxygen into your water. Apperantly they have nothing to do with Oxygen in your water. My Bad :embarrest:

Thanx Anonamous 1, 2 and 3 and fellow TASA users for helping me understand this all better.

I will be keeping my misinformed input which is not needed or wanted to myself in the future (we can't have the blind leading the blind). I'll stop posting things other than my own pix and questions.
If I don't get from TASA for this post. :flute:

 

Your liter capacity in the tank is 138 lt, with a 41 lt sump. Your overflow in tank from full till stop will be about 5.5 cm. (From experience with my overflow with bottom of T at 7cm) That 6 cm in the tank represent 20 lt. You must therfore leave space in your sump when running at capacity for 20 lt. Therefore, when your tank is full, you can have 20 lt in your sump, representing a height of 15 cm, which is half. So, when running at full capacity, your sump should never be over the half level and when you have a power failure, it will be full to the brim. Therefore run it at slightly below half, for a safety margin, say at 13 cm. Now you know have to work with and can plan your compartments and media, your pump must physically fit in the compartment under 14 cm water and remember, the suction creates a vortex, so the pump inlet must be as deep as possible under water, or it will suck air from the surface. I would fit an elbow to the inlet, pointing down. We must now work out what the volume of water flow in the overflow will be, to match it with a pump. If the pump is too strong, it will suck your sump dry. I will cover that in my next post.

Anyone out there seeing a mistake, please point it out so we can discuss.

 

I made a quick visit to the local hardware/plumbing/irrigation shop to to see what one's options is. Electrical conduit is no good, as the elbows and T's is not suitable. In plumbing you get 40 mm and 50 mm. In irrigation you get a lot of sizes, but the fittings is huge and is going to make the overflow too bulky. If I have to go smaller than 40 mm, I will go for the 20 mm irrigation with the black/green fittings and class 3 pipe.

So you know if you go 40 mm (38 mm ID) like I did, you need a 1500 lt/h pump that actually deliver 600 lt/h. If you go stronger than this, your overflow can not keep up and your tank will overflow and the sump will run dry. (my pump is adjustable 1500-3000 lt/h)

If you go 20 mm irrigation we look at:
Same velocity at 146.6 mm/second
That delivers 165 lt/h

So, with 20 mm overflow, your pump must not exceed 160 lt an hour. (Or you can build two overflows!) With a 80 cm head, the pump must be rated in the region of 320-360 lt/h. These are not exact figures and I therefore recommend an adjustable pump, if you want to fine tune the level in the tank.

Tank volume will be turned around 1.1 times per hour, so all the water will go through the sump about every 4 hours.

For those interested, I use this calculator for diameter/velocity/flow rate.

Pumps that I will recommend:

[TABLE="width: 317"]
[TR]
[TD]Eheim Compact 600[/TD]
[TD] R 320.00[/TD]
[TD]150-600 lt/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Eheim Compact 1000[/TD]
[TD] R 400.00[/TD]
[TD]150-1000 lt/h[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

I just want to say in the open, I do not agree with what has happened, I hate the negative feedback system and I sympathize with RFS and all the hundreds of members who do not post because they are scared of this type of thing.

RFS, it is OK, but if you want to discuss further, please open a new thread.

 

Update on the progress. Dividers silicon-ed in. Media placed. Already learning from my mistakes. This sump is just too long. Or I could have spaced the compartments better and have a nice holding tank for whatever I need space for outside of the main tank, fish, plants etc. Would have been nice if I had space for more hight. In the open compartment I can employ chemical filtration, or more mechanical, or I can move the matrix there and have space for plants etcetera.

And yes, I went way overboard on the matrix. I bought for future use so decided to employ it here so long. Why not, it is not as if it is getting exhausted?

 

I am thinking of experimenting with a venturi on my return line to prime the overflow. But first I want to know or find out the principal behind a venturi. Can someone help? I have two filters at the moment with venturi on them. The one suck air as expected, so you can connect an air line to it and blow bubbles into the water with the pump. The other one squirts water out of the venturi. What is causing the two to behave differently? The one that squirts water is on top of the pipe and the one that suck air on the side of the pipe. Is this the difference?

You can see the leaf being sucked to the venturi.


You can see the squirt of water straight up in the air.