Fishless cycling with ammonia.

@mydummyname I'm adding very small amounts of NH3. You could be right though, I might be overcomplicating it as you say. So you recommend to stop adding NH3? Doing small water changes, and adding fish when the NO2 and NO3 comes down.

 

The way I understand it (and I've never done fish-less cycling with ammonia, so I am speculating) is that the bacteria colony will grow to fit the food provided. If you add a lot of ammonia, there may not be enough bacteria initially, but more will grow to consume the food available. If you then stop adding ammonia (whether from a bottle or a fish) there will be less food and the bacteria colony will die off. A "failure" of the bacteria colony just means that there is too much ammonia for the current amount of bacteria to use. This is a problem only if you have fish in the tank. Otherwise, the bacteria colony will just grow to consume what is available. The failure refers to fish deaths resulting from the bacteria colony's inability to consume the excess ammonia.

 

That is how I understood it @Jenn. I also read that he bacteria are more hardy and don't just die off. The more ammonia they can grow to consume the better. There is a limit however, this is determined by the available media to occupy. This I read last night in a forum post by @Zoom and @Dirk. Dirk explained that the amount of bacteria is consistent with amount of "space" (for lack of a better word) and not with the amount of fish. Once a mature bio filter is established the amount of bacteria remains at a maximum and doesn't fluctuate with the amount of fish. My filter is yet to mature and it remains to be seen what the result will be.

 

My latest test revealed that the NH3 level went down from 5mg/l to less than 0,5mg/l in the last 2 days. The NO2 and NO3 levels are reading off the chart and is not measurable at the moment. I did add 1,5ml (28 drops) off NH3 to my tank. This roughly takes the NH3 level back up to 4mg/l which seems to be the normal level of NH3 people tend to add. According to the guide I'm following the NH3 and NO2 should be converted to NO3 within 24 hours for the filter to be considered mature.

 

ok, listen, i get what you guys are saying, but to me this process is still being overcomplicated, in my personal opinion to do what you initially set out to do, had you added the initial small amount of nh3 and left it at that, a small bacterial colony would have been established already and you would have been able to add one or 2 little fish already to the setup by now, and a week later you would have been able to add a few more fish.

mission accomplished and tank cycled using nh3.


correct me if i'm wrong but, what you are now saying is that you are trying to create a massive colony by adding massive amounts of nh3 and this should mean that eventually the tank will be fully cycled and ready to be virtually fully stocked all at once?

because if that is what you are saying, then i think you will be waiting for a very long time befor you are gonna be able to add that fish.

and as for the bacteria dying off if you stop adding your ammonia, i'm not really sure i agree with this, many people have cycled tanks simply by running the tanks for weeks without adding anything to the water and simply waiting it out, i think they can do this because the water does already contain traces of various nutrients and things like nitrates etc, it just means that the bacterial colony is very small.

i cant see how bacterial colonies will simply die off, in my mind, and according to my logic, they already exist in nature in water to begin with, its just that when food (ammonia, etc) is introduced that they actually thrive and the colonies grow bigger. and to me, the only thing that will kill the bacteria is adding chemicals or oxygen starvation. and even then, once the chemicals have evaporated, guess what, over time, the colony starts to establish itself slowly all over again.

this is a natural process that occurs in nature when you have oxygenated water.

now i'm no scientist, and the prof @Dirk, will probably tell me i'm totally wrong when he sees this thread, and i dont mind if he does, and he'll probably clear this all up nicely for us, but to my logic, it has to work something along these lines.

 

I did a series of test again yesterday and today and these are the stats.

Yesterday:

Water temp 32 Degrees
Ph 8.0
NH3 0mg/l
NO2 over 5mg/l
NO3 over 100mg/l

I then added another 1.5ml of Ammonia as I usually do to get my Ammonia level to between 1 and 2mg/l

Today:
Water temp32 Degrees
PH 8.0
NH3 0mg/l
NO2 0.5mg/l
NO3 over 100mg/l

I once again added 1.5ml of Ammonia. The nitrite is starting to go down. I believe the end is near...I will wait for the Nitrite to dissapear within 24 hours like the Ammonia has been doing. The ammonia has been dropping to 0 every day for the last 5 days. 12 days and counting.

 

@Vernonst it sounds like your tank is pretty much cycled. I havent followed the whole thread, hence the question...How long has it taken to reach the point you are now at ? I believe fishless cycling is considerably quicker than the conventional method using a few hardy fish ?

 

Oops....sorry missed the 12 days part !! Sounds about right according to the charts I have seen, 10 to 14 days.

 

i think first wait till the nitrates come down..

ph is very high tho.. @Vernonst unless you plan on keeping malawis or similar?

 

The plan is to keep Malawi's @mydummyname. I will wait for the Nitrite to come down and then do a water change after which the Nitrate should go down. The PH I've heard should be around there for Malawi's anyway. I wonder if Tang and Mbuna Malawi can be kept in the same tank if I have a couple of different species in the one tank. The plan is to stock 25 fish asap and then a couple more in January.

 

Just a note on the stocking of your fish dont go and buy 25 at one go. Rather buy 5 at a time and then give it a couple of days before you add the next batch of 5 until you reach your 25.

You dont want new tank syndrome with high nitrite and ammonia spikes again.

Sure everyone will agree with me on this stocking method.

 

Dont totally agree with you reedfish, I also did a fishless cycle when I started my 100 liter a few months ago and I bought 9 rosy fin tetras a few days later i got hectic nitrite spikes.

My tank was cycled before I added the fish, my ammonia and nitrites where 0 my nitrates was also down to 10.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

That's why I cycled without fish @hviviers75. I should be able to stock my tank in full should I want to.

@Reedfish thanks for pointing that out. So different species from the sam neighbourhood should be fine. Just isn't easy finding a lfs with a wide variety not sold as mixed Malawi which is not the best I've heard.

 

Well good luck dude.

Did the same with mine but got new tank syndrome anyway.

 

Is the new filter up and running @hviviers75

 

Let's just I'll be a bit pissed off if the tank has to cycle again.

 

No not yet bud, will get the 3000 l/h pump hopefully next weekend then I must go and buy the other 2 plastic bins and will also go get more of the bio media from Petstop SA.

Also need to go get some filter pads so I can place them between the bins.

Will then start up the new internal sump filter setup.

It will be a kick ass filter.

Thanks for asking bro.

 

That is a risk you can take dude, I went threw it and lost my first 9 rosyfin tetras. But in a way I am glad it happened cause know I got my Tiger Barb species tank these fish are freaken awesome.