Discus

Ok, here is a photo of the browns, cobalts and virgin reds. They are in a separate tank and came in 6 weeks after the initial group. So once my large tank is stabilized, I will start integrating the two groups into 3 different setups. I will thus have 27 fish spread across 3 tanks with a combined volume of 1500 litres. The VR in the pic as well as some of the browns have been extremely slow off the mark so i will split into small, medium and intermedaites. Any comments would be helpful.

Regards

Andrew

 

Hi

would love to get a nice pic of the browns. as is cant see much.

come on Andrew, get that Camera out!

 

@Marco

ok, let me get them worked up for some SV2000 then i'll take some shots

I have a rather unusual brown in that it has red dots on both sides. bleher talks about this in his volume 1 ( calls it a pintados ). Have you heard the term?

 

Hi Andrew

Nope, havent heard it before. BUT! and this is not a negative comment, its an "anticipation" comment ok. Very many Wild browns have region specific markings etc, but they hardly ever breed true.
Alencer, Cuipuea and Xingu browns will, if bred "true" give true to parent offspring. But many of these wilds caught and marketed today end up being singular specimens with specific appearance.
That is the Wild side of it.
Tank bred "Brown" discus hardly exist, and this is what I get upset about. Worldwide the interest in "smartie box" discus has waned, and interest in wild type and early hybrids are on the rise.
What does the eastern breeders do, as they really have no stock of the old typical brown line? They sell less colourfull Red turq and throwback fish off as browns.

Lets see when u post the pic. I love brown discus, and ended up trying to get some, which resulted in fish that were most definitly not brown

Rgds

Marco

 

Ok, here goes.

2 of the group of 5 that came in as browns could be what you are referring to as RT perhaps? The other 3 look brown.

Pls excuse the angle the photos were taken. trying to minimize the flash reflection off the glass so some of the shots are not completely side on.



andrew

 

Hi @pHish_man

Firstly, all these fish have nice shape and I want to tell you that my opinion is not intended to imply anything beside my observation.
Please do not be offended!

I doubt any of these are brown. Three are definitly red turq based. Two seem to be of Virgin red origin, but has had some sort of Snakeskin in their history, note the irregular barring.
I recently noted some Piwowarski Browns, and he is a breeder with great reputation. Even some of his browns have irregular barring, up to 13 stress bars and that means it has some Snakeskin in its origin.
It seems as if the standard of description of this specific strain is at best a bit questionable.

Below is a pic of a Wild brown. Note the complete lack of colour on its body, and the very prominent and well defined stress bars. To me this is a true brown.

 

Hi Marco

As stated in my original post, crit away and NO offence will be taken. This post is part of my learning curve so i am totally open to all comments.

Ok, its my understanding that wild browns display differnet colour patterns from the different clearwater river regions they inhabit. Part of the problem with sourcing discus in SA, is that Im told the local wholesaler buys his stock from the local wholesaler in the east who in turn buys his fish from various breeders. See the complication? So unless one is able to buy in wild caught stock of known origin, or quality tank bred offspring from a reputable breeder direct ( and we know how difficult that is proving to be ) then its all a bit hit and miss.

So having said that, I agree that 2 or 3 of the smaller fish above could be RT-based. Just as far as the snakeskin go( and im sure you are referring to the more than 9 vertical black bars and not fine horizontal striations ) i believe this is not a mutation that was introduced by the guys in Asia, as i have seen this in photos of wild caught fish although one might assume the Asian breeders select for this. I will be interested to see how these fish develope as the grow older for now they are still relatively young.

The brown that you have posted in the above pic; from what origin is that fish. My personal favourites are the browns from rio ica. But hey, we can dream on.......

Thanks again for all your invaluable comments.

Andrew

 

Hi @pHish_man

You are of course completely right when you say that once these guys grow a bit we will be in a better position to decide what they could/could not be.

You are also right when you say browns in the wild have very specific markings, and on top of that different base colour depending on where they originate from.

The fish in the pic I posted is a Xingu brown. They are known for their yellow-golden base colour with brilliant red markings on the fin edges. My favourite brown! I prefer the yellow base fish like Xingu, some Greens and Royal blues to the more red ones from areas such as Alencer and Ica. The Icas are very nice but too red for my liking.

Also remember that selling for instance Xingu browns as "standard brown discus" never happens, it leads to a loss of income to the breeders. They can charge a premium when they sell Brown discus designated to their area of origin. For instance, at the moment tank bred F1/F2 Cuipuea discus are being sold in Europe for in excess of €120! Selling them only as brown would prohibit them charging these prices.

Again,you are right about Snakeskin in the wild. Prof and I had a discussion recently about this on the forum. Of course many purist still argue this and hold forth there is no such thing as a wild Snakeskin.
I do think we should not however start thinking that a % of wild fish might be SS. I would think the quantities as a whole that are actually SS in the wild would be insignificant as to almost have no effect on populations.

We are unfortunately a small Discus community in SA, and this leads to hardly any quality fish we might desire coming to our shores. This is why I always say we as hobbyist breeders must bite the bullet, get quality strains into SA of varying strains in order to establish a nice base for ourselves. Its not easy though.

Here is a puc of what I would call a "Brown Discus". These were abound in the late 80's early 90's, but of late they have disappeared.
This type of brown is not area specific but would just be labelled Brown Discus. Very nice!

 

yip, couldnt agree with you more. But in the interim i must admit I am happy with my investment of 27 malaysian fish and how they are helping my learning curve in the discipline of growing out discus.

We wait in anticipation for a move towards possibly obtaining fish from a reputable source.

andrew

 

Quick update

Moved the first batch of fish across to their new rig today. Out of the 11 going into this system, I selected the smallest 6/11 and transferred them first and will move the ''big boys" across on Monday. This will give me the weekend to assess if the system is perfect for the whole group and also allow the smaller of the group to settle in before the bigger ones.

some photos of the fish ( these fish are hand tame and I used my net as little as possible to reduce any chance of damage to the fish in transfer ) so pls no comments of the fish-in-hand photos as this was a lot quicker than using a net.



Regards

Andrew

 

Those are some awesome discus ! What a really nice selection.

 

Quick update

Finished the major reshuffle. Now have my largest 11 discus in a 953l ( total volume ) setup. 8 smaller ones in the 325l cube and remaining 8 smallest in a 240l.

Just some pics of the cobalts, brown and virgin red.



Also have 3 tiny A.dolichopterus in each of the 325 and 240l tanks. Hopefully these guys will grow out eventually.

 

the fish in your hand pictures, are they still alive ? why are they not flopping about and jumping

 

They are very much alive.

In my opinion it is less stress and less chance of damage to the fish if I move them by hand rather than net. These fish are hand tame and the minute they were placed in their new tanks, they were attacking the prof's beefheart mix. So all is good.

 

I concur with the hand thing!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

 

:hatsoff:Andrew! Those discus are looking great! ....and he he he well, at least those ancistrus are now visible to the naked eye! (really folk, the last time I saw them you REALLY had to squint!)

 

Hand tame, Wow thats the first I have ever heard of it.
You mentioned something interesting there though "prof's beefheart mix" what is it ? where do you get it ?

 

@Juddy

hand tame is common with bigger fish like Discus and Oscars.
Prof's beefheart mix is a frozen food the Professor Dirk Bellstedt (a member of this forum) imports from overseas, and is currently only available through purchasing from him.

 

@Juddy

take the time to read the following http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/s...her-tropical-fish-as-well&highlight=beefheart

once you understand it, drop the prof a pm and he will mail you a pricelist of his food he imports. Dont expect a quick reply as he is out the country till Friday this week.

REgards

Andrew

 

tks Ashley