Blacklisted?

A very educated answer indeed.

Thanks Henk. This was the whole point of me reviving this issue. It was never clearly stated as you have done so excellently.

Kind Regards
TM

 

Ok... It's Hitman's turn to respond.

The blacklist is to stop the illegal importation of the fish. These fish have been declared by the DEAT as being invasive. TM, if they are in the country already, this does NOT make them legal. You are looking for a loophole that does not exist. The blacklist is a comprehensive no-go on what you can import... therefore it is not allowed in the country. FULL STOP.

The Mods do NOT close every single thread that is talking about blacklisted fish. The forum rules are very clear:

A recent thread was started on the Stickleback. A blacklisted fish in SA... however the thread had absolutely NOTHING to do with keeping them, and was actually an informative article that a member was sharing with you. Did we close the thread? Nope.

Some members have a blacklisted fish as their avatar. So what! That person is not discussing the keeping of the blacklisted fish!

Let's tak another example... I have a picture of a hitman in my avatar... are we going to get just as nit-picky because I am now advertising being a hitman. Please.

I've often told the new members to go and familiarize themselves with the forum rules... however I think some of our older members need to go and do the same.

 

Wow this really got intense i just wanted to know what all the fuss was about cos ive never heard of this whole story before

 

Don't worry PS, most members have never heard of the blacklist before they came abord the forum. Its secondary or tertiary (cant remember anymore) regulation legislature that gets passed and posted in a government gazette (that most SA citizens dont even know about) and becomes law until replaced or revoked.

You only get to hear about stuff like that when you come into contact with the subject of the regulations, e.g. freshwater fauna and flora distribution, buying and keeping...

The worst part of it all is, that even thought the DEAT issues the regulations, its mostly only enforcible on importers because we simply do not have the manpower in the police service to inspect every citizen's premises for blacklisted fauna and flora, so criminal charges are more likely to go to importers and shops.

That is why this site tries to promote a conscious effort at maintaining the regulations. It is every citizen's own duty to make sure s/he does their part to protect the environment by not keeping endangered species and not getting rid of invasive material or species in our local waters. If you do have a blacklisted species in your 1, 2, 3, 4ft tank, be responsible with it, and don't let it breed and distribute the offspring, don't dispose of the species in your local spruit etc.

But honestly I believe its also not right to kill off, or flush any species just because you are now informed that its blacklisted. Nor does it make sense to uproot, dry out and burn all blacklist plants in your tank. Don't aquire it if you know it is blacklisted and don't promote its acquisition, be responsible with it if you do have it.

De minimus non curat lex - the law does not concern itself with trifles:
having one fish or one plant in your tank is not gonna get you sent to jail or fined into poverty, keeping a farming tub of the stuff probably will... Discussion for informative value should be acceptable, but promition and acquisition is not accepted, thats all there is to it.

 

In simpler terms if it aint on the white list it aint supposed to be in your tank..............BUT in spite of this and other "laws" there is a lack of workforce and drive to enforce these laws.

I for one would have a problem with the "agency/deat" wanting to.police individual members on this forum and others like this as opposed to monitoring outlets and importers and distributors

And the reason for prohibitation of imports of many species is not purely because of its invasive nature but also becoz it may be endangered in its natural habitat from exploitation

Jus my 2c

 

Exactly my point in another thread I made, if you cant promote the discussion of what black listed species then how can you make people aware of it? How may thread have been created here about black listed species with out the users evening knowing it was on the list? I mean when I created the Stickleback thread I had no idea it was on the black list, and I mean how can I it is almost impossible to know which is on the list. It is not like the average users walks with a list while shopping at the lps.

And DEAT being a government institution is under so much man power and financial constraints because of miss management by the higher ups that they cant strictly enforce them. And think about it logically for a 2nd do you go after the guy who buys the grey product without knowing or do you go after the person importing and selling them? Same should apply to the tropical aquarium industry.

A good example would be this plant that is on the black list here. "Egeria densa"

​

It is sold in about every lps that I have come across, if someone bought this without knowing it would you arrest them or the people who is selling them?

I did not even know it was on the blacklist till I did a Google search for floating plants for my tank. No I am not promoting any blacklisted species just saying it is rather stupid going after the consumer who buys these without the knowledge while the lps buy these knowing most fully well what they are purchasing.

 

Wow even that plant? I see that thing in so many places,

 

I wonder if Hornwort is on the blacklist...

 

lots of plants on sale are weeds... i have also seen that in a few shops. what responsibility do we have when we see this happening? the lfs here mix snails and loaches... which is not good on the snails. they do not know about fish, or care to know. are we allowed to report them to someone?

 

Almost all Floating plants are blacklisted, as a matter of fact I dont know of a floating plant that is not blacklisted.

Regards
Peter

 

from the DEAT website:

 

Yeah you will be surprised by the amount of blacklisted animal & plants that are being sold locally. Problem is there is no education or awareness campaigns by DEAT to bring these to light, no education means no awareness. If you take a look at the department of agriculture they at least of some awareness campaigns against invasive plants and pamphlets you can pick up at most big nurseries. There is also the financial and man power aspects of enforcing these laws, patrolling breeders and LPS nation wide is lots of man power and time.

 

Well, I think this thread is a valuable, educational contribution from TASA...

 

As an amendment to the prohibited list I would like to see the justification of the specie being there and the qualifications of the persons who have come to these decisions and how exactly where research done and the date of such decision on each specie,does not have to be printed on the list but maybe it could have a referance no or code where it can be looked at

 

fishcrazy I agree with you 100% would be nice to know the why and the how, but I doubt that will ever happen with DEAT. I think the strongest weapon against any illegal fish or plant species is firstly awareness then education then implementing those steps, but unfortunately those first two steps were never implemented hence lps sell blacklisted species without any ramifications.

In a perfect world of unicorns and rainbows we would not need the blacklist as a reference to avoid buying blacklisted fish or plants and even then it does happen to unsuspecting buyers.

 

Noiw i would like to point out that education about the law is an individuals own responsibility.As heard in MANY court cases it is being said "Ignorance of the LAW is NO excuse"

One specific LPS in PTA refused to keep or even receive (for free) a certain blacklisted fish.(African Juwel to be precise.)
If one LPS know that a fish/es is blacklisted then so can the others.

 

Hmmm... that would make for some interesting reading... but unless you are prepared to do some serious research... you will not find this kind of information easily.

I think the main criteria with regards to the blacklist is to decide if the species of plant or fish is invasive. By this I mean will it destroy the natural habitat of our South African waters? If yes, then it is blacklisted.

I haven't read up too much on the Hartebeespoort Dam issue. But a few years ago an invasive plant got into the water, and literally overtook the entire dam. It blocked out light for lower lying plants. It exhausted the dam of essential nutrients, and I actually believe that an algae was a secondary infestation. As fast as the stuff was being cleared out it was growing... and has/is taking years to rectify... never mind the ecological impact this has had on the natural environment of the dam.

So that is why we have a blacklisted list.

Rgds

Ashley

 

Sooner or later we are going to be seeing a Goldfish and Koi fishing season . . .This could be an answer to invasive fish? Fish them out and keep them as pets?

If they happen to accidentally breed . . you can always use them as feeders.

 

I tend to disagree, to become educated in the law or in this case the blacklist you need to be made aware of it. How many people joined the hobby and only found out later about the blacklist because they weren't made aware of it? Or how many people honestly knew there was something like a blacklist when they started keeping fish.

How many books or pamphlets are available at lps or book shops regarding South African blacklisted species? Yet I can walk into any book shop and find books that explain the rules of using the road and how our constitution works. Currently the only updated way of doing so so on a forum like this or the DEAT website which not everyone has access too.

Just my 2c

 

Sorry i havent had a look at this thread in a while.... let me educate some more!

One the 1st draft of the latest set of lists (which will become law later this year or early next year) they had goldfish and koi as blacklisted species. This is due to them being part of the carp family and they do easily reproduce in SA. only after a massive outcry from the koi industry did they take them off the 2nd draft.