BlackList

I actually think many LPS's are very much aware of the BL, even if they have not familiarised themselves with the species on there....

If I remeber correctly, there were several LPS's in the Cape region that were 'raided' a few years back, with lots of them having stock confiscated? Don't know of any fines though? Maybe Henketh could shed some light here?

Whilst I agree that the DEAT etc could do more, but can't due to under resourcing, they do do something. And the more of us who get involved, the more they can do their work effectively.

I do also agree that the BL could be more publicised, which is partly why TASA makes such a fuss about it. Whilst we can't educate everyone, we can educate those on this forum. Unfortunately, all too often, this is after the unsuspecting has already bought BL species.

Its also a shame that some members seem not to care about this issue other than to criticise the fact that there is a BL. The BL is there for a reason, whether or not you agree with it, so just deal with it. Why keep hammering over the same arguement over and over? Rather than waste energy on issues we cannot change on this forum, take up issues with the DEAT, or even better, offer to help out?

G!

 

Fully agree with you --> Thought I made a pretty clear point on why DEAT has a black list and the ecological factor's behind it way early in the start of this thread....Stop moaning about not being able to keep this or that species,just be glad for the ones we can keep...knowing that the ecological impact of those we are alowed to keep leaves a(hopefully) very small footprint in Nature...

 

+1

 

Gareth... you Hit the nail on the head!
Azurekoi... you explained it quite simply in black and white!! Unfortunately, some members are so against the BL that they will find any and every excuse under the sun to try and appose it and challenge it.

(start rant)

My feeling is simple... it is law! END OF STORY. Whether it is being governed properly or not, whether you agree with it or not... it is the bl**dy law. If you have a problem with it, there is no use in bitching-and-moaning on a forum. Take it up with the DEAT YOURSELF! If you not prepared to do anything about it yourself, you have no right to complain. (If you didn't vote in the last election, you have absolutely ZERO say in what government do/say/act.)

(/end rant)

 

HI guys, Ashley

I find this Blacklist thing a little ironic. Firstly we are Aquarists, fishkeepers. Now, I have my pets and I care for them. My Golden Retriever boy is literally spoilt rotten because I just love him too much! I love fish! Luckily for me I know which fish I want to keep, and frankly should the Blacklist be abolished tomorrow, it aint gonna change a damn thing in my fishroom, it will still be filled with Discus! There is over 9500 freshwater fish species off which less than half is actually blacklisted - surely that leaves enough room to find what it is you like and enjoy, and make the best of it. I have always found that this hobby is filled with too many people in an undecided frame of mind. What I mean by that is -Today they keep Malawi's, tomorrow everything gets thrown out and they keep Tetra's, then its Discus, then the next thing. If I could offer one bit of advise to that, stick with something and become an expert on it, this hobby needs more expert on say Betta's, and Apisto's and all the many different families. To get to the IRONIC bit - Many people complain about the Blacklist not being enforced right? Even if its the law. Well, those same people then complain when moderators on this forum take a firm stand on the whole BL issue, and see, it is LAW on this forum

So we should all decide do we want law's to be enforced, or do we just want things to bend to suit our needs so we can get away with more. We care for fish, accept the Blacklist and move on. Why must each and every detail be explained, its for the protection of mother nature, thats it. Whether it is to protect the listed species or others, it doesnt have to matter, just accept it and buy another guppy or neon and be gratefull you can actually keep them.

Thats my (more than) 2c. . .

Regards

Marco

 

No one here is either bitching-or-moaning we are having a discussion as fishkeepers regarding the topic. And I think this topic is rather informative and should be kept open for other people to read and give their own opinion and input. Every time a thread like this gets closed someone else will just open another one. Closing a thread and sweeping it under the carpet like so many of the other threads is not constructive or conducive to anything constructive. Rather use something like this thread to inform and make a platform for discussion regarding the blacklist.

I have voted and pay my taxes same as all the other people here (I assume) so I expect the government to use the money and the vote I gave or did not give them to do their actual job. I dont pay my taxes and vote so that I have to do their work for them. Do you pay the electrician or plumber but do the job yourself? Or do you let him do the work you paid him to do.

 

@larch
I do agree with many of the things you say, especially not just accepting things because others decide it to be so. However, when I am not aware of the consequences of my actions,and they are hard and almost impossible to calculate, then I refrain, as I'm sure somewhere a reason exist. The point is these BL discussions lead nowhere! Nothing gets resolved, nothing changes! We basically go aound in circles, and that is even more pointless. Itruly do not see why so many question it, thats my honest take on it.
Regards
Marco

 

I have no problem with the blacklist thread continuing the way it is going. But keep it clean and constructive. The problem is when we start slating departments, governments, agencies, etc etc, the forum can become liable for defamation.

 

Any one reading this thread, will have a head that spin, as it is going around in circles...
I start seeing black... no that must be a blacklist!

 

The Problem is that when people challenge the strength of enforcement of the BL, it can send a mixed message that its ok to ignore the BL because its effectively redundant, but this is the very point so many of us are trying to repeatedly make, that its our responsibility as fish keepers to adhere to the BL restrictions so as to protect firstly the environment we live in, but also our hobby, regardless of whether it can be enforced or not!!

And negatively remarking on our DEAT forum user is not going to help anything, and infact could be taken as a personal attack on another forum member, of which people have been banned from TASA for!

Discussion is one thing, but constant snide remarks are not going to be tolerated, whether aimed at another forum member or any political partys.

This thread will be getting a clean up shortly. Keep all comments non political, and non personal. TASA is not the place to vent about the Government.

Regards
G!

 

My interest in fish keeping has shifted in recent years,from fish only tanks,to planted community tanks and now to almost exclusively,aquatic plants.
I first found my inspiration on US,European and Asian based forums.All with planted aquascapes that leaves you breathless.So it was obvious to try and copy these layouts,easier said than done I soon found out.The main reason?Black listed plants.
Then I came across this most beautifully aquascape:

What you see is a huge Java fern and plants not on the black list.
What I'm trying to say is,we are limited by our own imagination,not a list of banned fish or plants.
It seems people are are "blinded" by the fish and plants they can't have and forget about the multiple species available to the SA aquarist today.

Regards
Rudi

 

Thats stunning Rudi! Thanks for sharing!

G!

 

In light of everything said, the best way to do this and to HELP those being paid to do this is to call the numbers like Henk has mentioned. We are having a similar discussion on another forum. Basically everyone is in agreement that the only way to combat a lets say brocken law(Blacklistspecies) is to report the parties concerned. This over time will help in changing attitudes and create alot more awareness.

 

Couldn't agree more Riyadh!

G!

 

So any feedback yet Lizid?

 

Larch what do you think?

I was there on the weekend again, here's there current stock list, one black Salamander, Green Mamba, rattle snakes and diamond head snake...
As far as I know all blacklisted, or not allowed to be sold.

So I guess just goes to prove my point nothing will be done.

So we can argue and fight, feel guilty or be told we are doing wrong, but nothing will be done. Kinda sounds like the metropolice and the taxi's everyone know there is a problem but we will rather point fingers to the members that do have a conscious?

 

http://www.wwf.org.za/what_we_do/species/sa_frogs/

You guys need to read this . .