what some may call dud discus TURK X PIGEON

• Turk and pigeon.
  
  @jpvd007, thought of your new discus fry "the mongrels" have a looK at these. cheers doug
  WOW! They are all look very sexy. Thick body, nice round shape, fast growing, the only missing is that the color not that fantastic. But still I suddenly fallen in live with these fish. Here are some of the pictures. They are about 5,5 inch TL in roughly 8+ months.
  
  Just wondering, average quality looking fish also can have a high quality gene hidden inside them...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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@doug

were these photos taken off a discus forum? Hope the pics are not subject to copyright. Interesting that these fish show their black vertical bars. Not a PB trait.

Oh, and the over developed breast is not a trait I would select for......each to their own I guess.

regards

Andrew

 

@pHish_man im sure there was some kulling involved.

thats what i found with these discus
the pics are from a hobbiest "private" hope you are enjoying them
cheers doug

 

Nice fish, I actually like the not-too-bright colours. Looks almost natural.
@pHish_man, do you know if the over-developed breast is a genetic trait? I don't like it either, and I see it in a lot of pics of discus that are considered excellent. I wondered if it might be the result of a lifetime of heavy feeding.

 

@PsyXe

very interesting question you pose here. I am no expert so cannot answer conclusively and maybe @Dirk will enter the discussion. What I have read though is that the cause of this could be two-fold. Firstly genes and secondly diet. Andrew Soh, who breeds discus in Singapore suggests that usually it is the fat deposits that force the discus out of shape...resulting in double chin and so on. As I say, im not an authority in this field as my discus journey is only some 6 months down the line so still in the learning phase.

But if it were up to me, I would certainly NOT use any of these double chin fish in any of my future breeding plans any more than i would PB strain. Im totally with you regarding the more natural looking fish and i have come a full circle myself preferring the wild type strains over the gaudy coloured fish now produced. Each to their own though.

@doug, i trust you dont view this as a thread hijack and rather as a discussion for which it is intended.

Regrads

Andrew

 

@pHish_man

you carrie on. these pics were intended to show what you get when you X discus strains that dont normally get crossed
"the no no what are you doing!"
cheers doug

 

but if you think about .... all the discus that we get our hands. (except wild caught) have all been manipulated buy people i some way or another.
i`m by far from any expert in the field but logic tells me that there were loads of

before we got all the different discs strains we have today. im sure that this will continue as long as people in the hobby keep discus. cant wiat to see all the new strains still to come.
cheers doug

 

Hi guys,

Unfortunately the pics only show us the Red Turk offspring from this crossing. Maybe @doug can go back and get us a few oics of the PB offspring. Im sure they will be terribly peppered. Thats the down side to these type of crosses.
The barred fish now also carry the PB gene, so breeding them to each other will result in more peppered PB. Some dont mind it I suppose, each to his own liking.

The "shape" thing doesnt bug me too much in these yet. As @pHish_man said though, Id also not select for it any further, will just eventually accentuate it until they resemble the "bulldog" types from Asia. Nothing wrong with these slightly hi-fin ones though, even though its about as far as it should go I guess.

@doug

Problem with these are as follow - The PB's will be wildly peppered, in SA that still sells, but in countries in Europe and the USa you wont be able to give them away.
Then, the barred fish - what are they? So that is the problem with these crosses, they might be fine looking fish, but cannot be classed as a strain. So how to market them?

The Discus world has gone through very big changes in recent years.
Most Asian breeders look for that mutation, new colour morph etc, but in recent years this has not been happening. Some suggest the basic S.aquif gene has reached its limits.
Furthermore the big discus farms in Asia has closed down. Shaifullah Yen, A. Soh etc, they dont run big farms anymore, its not feasible any longer. They now mostly act as Discus Agents, bringing together a number of smaller breeders who focus on a handfull of strains in a consortium type deal. (view "famousdiscusbreeders.com") As far as I know A. Soh breeds only one or two strains himself now. Same for S.Yen.
On top of this, in recent times Wild type Discus have reigned supreme, with more and more hobbyists reverting to the wild types and/or early hybrids such as Red Turk and Brill Turk, Pearls etc. In the near future I foresee this to become even more prominent, with many of the Fancy named Hybrids falling away into memory only.

I for one wont miss most of them. . .

Rgds

Marco

 

@Marco



quote=doug;178722]im sure there was some kulling involved.[/quote]
the pics i got only had theses fish and from what i could work out. the discus were also the last in the batch.
the peppering would only matter if you put pb in the mix again. found interesting since some of pur TASA members are crossing pb and ....(fill in as needed)
cheers doug

 

@doug - I think you should call them Pigeon Turds and start a new strain :bigsmile:

 

ja crush them up use as firts hahah

 

Ok, just found the link where @doug copied these photos from.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?89528-Turk-x-Pigeon&highlight=saputra25

 

@doug I think you need to explain your last post a bit more as you have left more then a couple of us more than a bit perplexed at what you mean?

 

the pics i got only had theses fish and from what i could work out. the discus were also the last in the batch.
the peppering would only matter if you put pb in the mix again. found interesting since some of pur TASA members are crossing pb and ....(fill in as needed)
cheers doug[/quote]

This is the post i am referring to @doug?

 

Hi @doug

Nope, you are wrong. A certain % of this batch had to be pigeon. No pics of those, then you would've been able to see that they would be severely peppered.

These in future, crossed with anything or bred to each other, will also result in some PB with heavy peppering.

Lets wait and see how Jasons fish develop. Again, many folk dont mind the peppering, and it doesnt make it a low quality fish. I just find it ugly, but thats my opinion only Its down to personal preferance.

Rgds

Marco

 

@jpvd007 not sure which part of the post?
cheers doug