Treating Early signs of ICH without meds

I have noticed recently some salt grain like particles on my fish. i think the ICH was introduced with the the Kuhli loaches i put in my tank 2 weeks ago(I dont have a quarantine tank ) . i have read that it can be treated by heating up the water in your aquarium ( 28 - 32 degrees on various sites). has anyone had success of getting rid of ICH this way? im not too keen on meds as the loaches are not good with them being scaleless and all!!

 

Hi,

Heat works to a certain degree, but you must also realise that heat speeds up the life cycle of ich, meaning they will reproduce faster, thus becoming more and a bigger of a problem.

Heat only really helps in combination with meds. As you have kuhli loaches in there, I would opt for Metrozinadole at 7mg a liter, with tank temp at 29'Celsius. Leave that in the tank for 3 days, do a big water change and redose. You got to keep doing this until all ich spores are gone. If however you notice after the first cycle that the spores are still increasing, you will have to opt for stronger meds

Rgds

Marco

 

what i have done is increse the temp to 28 degrees the first day and then for 2 days i have had teh water at 31. and i must say there is a difference. there is less ich but it is still noticeable. where do i get metrozinadole, and is it tablets or liquid. i was thinking about using a half dose of the daro ich away medication. is that a good product?

 

No! Do not use half doses and mess around, you end up getting that ich parasite resistant against meds.

The thing now is, the life cycle of ich indicates that they will leave the fish, fall to the aquarium floor and burst open, releasing hundreds of new ich spores. You view it at first as getting better, and before you know it it is 100 x worse! The heat has now sped up this process exponentially.

Metro you can get from a lps, chemist or veterinarian. The vet/chemist option is the cheapest, but often needs some explaining as it is a prescription drug.

Rgds

Marco

Ps, get the tablet form, not the liquid

 

ok. how much should i be paying for metro so that i dont get ripped off? thanks for the help

 

Metro is in a blue cylindrical bottle, pet stalls costs about R98 to R110
Its like a whiteish powder form, I got a bottle but never used it.

 

Thats right, and when you buy from a chemist or vet it will cost you about 50cents for a 400mg tablet. So try get it from either, will save you a stack.

 

I buy Acuzole 400mg Tab 20 @ R12.18, active ingredient: Flagyl. Got prescription from my vet and buy from chemist. Also 200mg tab @ R10.30 for 20. I crush it fine and dissolve in luke warm water in a bottle that I shake and let stand till dissolved. Then add it to the tank. Water goes milky for a hour or so and then clears. I have khuli loach and elephant nose and they are not affected. Increasing the heat helps speeding up the live cycle, as Marco explain, aiding in getting them when they are in the vulnerable free swimming stage, looking for a host.

Also see these threads.
Search Results - Tropical Aquariums South Africa

 

Just a thought - the half dose recommendation is usually for people with internal filters AS STATED ON THE BOTTLE - and therefore with Protozin - the one that I use, the 1/2 dose is considered a full dose if you have an internal filter.

ICH doesn't survive above 31C which is why it's disappearing - the higher temperature also accelerates the diseases metabolism and could be enough on it's own to cure the disease.

1 tbs aquarium salt per gallon is also recommended to treat without even using meds.

A note of warning though - medicating and raising temperature both deplete available oxygen so you should be increasing oxygen exchange at the same time with an airstone or two.

cb

 

Interesting. And fish?

Is this from a credible source, like a book written by an expert, or Google? hehe

I fail to understand what internal or external has to do with it?

 

86F is the most quoted temperature that the Ich lifecycle is interfered with. Obviously, you don't want to kill your fish but seeing as this temperature has already been reached in this tank, telling people of the reported effects of raising temperature alone is not a waste of time.
http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Ich.html#heat for an unbiased assessment of the use of heat.

Take up the 1/2 dose issue with Waterlife: "When using under gravel, power filtration and external filtration use standard dose. Use 1/2 dose if using other filtration, in new aquaria or with sensitive species or fry"
cb

 

@ccb

Previously it was thought, and described as such, that ich could only attack fish if the water temperature was less than 28'C (83F), and that simply heating the water to above that (86'F) would solve the problem.
Things dont work that easily anymore. It could be due to the ich protozoa "adapting" or just due to incorrect perceptions. I have never had luck eradicating ich at 30'c without the use of meds.

A while back I had a problem in winter with load shedding and power failures. After this happened a few days in a row, with temperature in my tanks dropping from 31 to 25 every other day, I noticed my Discus had ich. I raised the temperature to 34'c (which discus can still handle) and kept it there for 10 days. Ich was gone. Very few species can handle that temperature though, so I doubt at 30'c this problem will be solved.

I know about waterlife's statement about internal and external filters and half dose for this and that, logic tells me its absolute crap! I cant for the life of me see how the location of a filter has any effect on medication. The only reasoning I have thus far concluded is that the medicine would kill active filter bacteria if the media is in constant submersion of the water containing the meds, but even that makes little sense. Half dose medication is just that, half dose! No matter what filter u use! They just selling their product with a back door left open in case of disaster.

Very good info, and of course you are correct that warmer water has lower levels of oxygen

Rgds

Marco

 

Reading it again, They're referring to air powered filtration- which might make a bit more sense if you take tank circulation levels into effect for the half dose.

Furthermore, I'd not automatically assume the worst with regard to the ich strain present - maybe 31C did kill it! - if there are signs of improvement.

Either way, the OP should be very satisfied with the info posted in the thread here + the above link.
cb

 

i've had ich outbreaks twice in 2 years or so, and both occasions it came after adding new loaches to the tank

i've added no meds or salt, mainly because loaches, which do not have scales are sensitive to almost any chemical / medicine that you add to the tank water and personally i've found that just raising the temp to 32deg for 1 to 2 weeks solved my ich problem.

i have bala sharks and tinfoil barbs in my tank as well and these did not look any the worse for wear because of the higher temperatures.

just make sure you add an airstone as the warmer water does hold a lower percentage of oxygen than cooler water would. this is important.

in any event, any clown loach tank should be at a temperature of 27-30degs, any cooler than this and your loaches will stand a higher chance of getting ich.

other types of loaches however do not need to be kept at such high temperatures altho i would recommend 27 deg for yoyo loaches, zebra loaches etc.

 

Agree with raising the temperature, it worked for me by raising the temp to 32 deg for 4 days, ich was gone without any meds. If you ad meds, that is if you want to go that route, remove the carbon form your filters if you have any carbon within your filters.

Found the info below when I had the problem, can't recall the exact source but it works. HTH

Ich Life Cycle
To better understand how it can be treated, a basic understanding of Ich is helpful:
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[TD]· Parasitic Stage - The first stage (trophozoite) is embedded in the skin of the fish, and feeds on fluids and tissue cells. The fish tries to protect itself by producing more cells around the trophozoite, which leads to the formation of the tiny white spots.
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[TD]· Intermediate Stage - Eventually the trophozoite morphs into a trophont, detaches from the host leaving an open wound, and swims freely until it locates a suitable place to settle.
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[TD]· Reproductive Stage - Once the trophont settles, it forms a sticky wall around itself and becomes a cyst (tomont). Inside, the tomont divides into many hundreds or even thousands of tomites.
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[TD]· Infectious Stage - The tomites are released into the water column and swim freely until they attach to a host, starting the cycle over again. If a tomite doesn't find a host within a short period of time, it will die.
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The Ich life cycle is temperature dependent. Higher temperatures within its livable range speed up every stage of the life cycle, while the lower temperatures will slow it down. At 18°C/64°F the cycle takes 10-12 days to complete.
It has been found that Ich does not infect new fish at 29.4°C/85°F (Johnson, 1976), stops reproducing at 30°C/86°F (Dr. Nick St. Erne, DVM, pers. comm.), and dies at 32°C/89.5°F (Meyer, 1984), [1]
Treatment
Now that we know a little more about Ich, we can develop a safe and effective natural treatment plan to eradicate it. A multi-pronged treatment plan offers the most assurance of complete eradication of Ich and TLC for the fishes in your aquarium. As with any treatment, carefully observe the reaction of your fish to any changes you make in their environment. If an adverse reaction occurs, discontinue and try another approach.
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[TD]· Increase temperature to 30°C/86°F. With tropical fish, an increase in temperature to 30°C/86°F is usually very well-tolerated. Since this temperature prevents reproduction of Ich, it can theoretically cure the problem by itself. So the first step would be to increase the temperature slowly, 1°C/2°F per hour until the correct temperature is reached. This temperature should be maintained for 10 days, and then slowly returned to normal. Some fish can tolerate higher temperatures. If your fish are more heat tolerant, try increasing the temperature to 32°C/89.5°F for the first 3-4 days to kill the Ich. Then reduce temperature slowly to 30°C/86°F, and hold it there for an additional 6-7 days, or until a total of 10 days have passed. Gauge the heat tolerance of your fish by observing their reaction.
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[TD]· Increase aeration. Increased temperature leads to increased metabolism, which enhances the fish’s immune response but also increases oxygen demand. Oxygen is lower in warmer water, so it is very important to increase surface agitation during the treatment to increase oxygenation. In planted tanks with CO2 injection, the CO2 should be turned off and extra aeration should be provided. Carefully observe your fish, watching for signs that they are not getting enough oxygen. If fish are gasping at the surface, you need to provide more aeration. Aeration can be increased by reducing the water level so the filter return makes more of a waterfall and splash, and/or use an airstone placed close to the surface of the water.
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[TD]· Do daily partial water changes. 25% daily partial water changes will provide several benefits: It will keep the water very clean, which will help fish cope with the stress of the disease. It will remove some of the trophonts and tomites. It will add oxygen. This author also recommends the use of NovAqua+ to condition the change water. This product is a dechlorinator and has several additional benefits that help fish under stress, including sealing of the wounds caused by the Ich. If the water changes seem to stress the fish, reduce the size and/or frequency of the water changes.
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[TD]· Use a Micron Filter. The Aqua Clear Quick Filter used with a power head is an easy and inexpensive way to capture both free-swimming stages and the cysts of Ich in water that passes through the filter. A diatom filter can also be used. Both of these filters trap particles as small as one micron in size. The smallest stage of Ich, the free-swimming, swarming tomite, is approximately 30 microns, large enough to be trapped in this type of filter. Change the filter daily with the water changes. The Quick Filter cartridge can be cleaned and reused. Rinse thoroughly in very hot water, or boil for a few minutes to kill any stage of Ich that may be trapped inside. Or use a fresh cartridge. Make sure your fish are comfortable with the current caused by the additional filter.
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[TD]The following optional procedures where appropriate are also beneficial:
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[TD]· Remove Gravel. In a non-planted aquarium and where practical, the temporary removal of the gravel reduces attachment sites for the tomont and makes it easier to siphon the floor of the aquarium where many tomonts will be located.
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[TD]· Use salt. In a non-planted aquarium with tolerant fish, the addition of Aquarium salt at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 4 liters/1 gallon of water disrupts the fluid regulation of Ich. Do not add salt crystals directly to tank. Always dissolve salt in a small amount of tank water before adding to tank. This dosage may be repeated every 12 hours for a total of three treatments. When Ich is gone, salt is removed with daily 25% water changes. [2]
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A separate salt bath is very effective for individual fishes. The higher concentration of salt will destroy embedded trophozoites on the body of the fish by preventing them from maintaining fluid balance. To prepare a salt bath for small-medium size fish, dissolve 2 Tablespoons Aquarium Salt in 4L/1 Gal. of conditioned tap water that is the same temperature as the tank water. Stir well to make sure all salt is dissolved before using.
Place affected fish in a container with enough tank water to cover the fish with a little room to spare. A wider container is better than a tall, narrow one, as it allows for better oxygenation of the water, and room for the fish to move about. Add salt solution very gradually until fish just starts to show mild stress. You may not need to add all of the solution. Leave in bath for 30 minutes, carefully observing the fish’s reaction to the treatment. Return the fish to fresh water immediately if it rolls over or tries to jump out. Observe the fish carefully during the entire bath period. After the 30 minutes, dilute the salt bath in stages with tank water. Gently net out fish and return it to the main tank. This procedure can be repeated after 48 hours, up to 3 treatments. Do not use salt in planted tanks or with sensitive, soft water fishes. Do not pour bath water into main tank.
By the end of the 10 days of treatment, all Ich should be gone and the fish will have healed completely from the effects. Keep the temperature up for the full 10 days to ensure that the Ich is gone.
Most strains of Ich should be eradicated by this heat treatment, but bear in mind that there is at least one strain in Florida that is known to be heat-tolerant [3]. If you do not notice a marked improvement after 3-4 days of this treatment, you should stop and consider another approach.

 

Just keep in my mind that certain species can't tolerate the salt, so before adding salt first go read up on the fish you are keeping.

 

thanks all. my tank is currently at 31.2 degrees. but there is still ICH on 2 of the fish. it has been above the 30 degree mark now since sat. there was a small improvement, but it is not getting worse or better at the moment. i think i will go for 32 degrees today for the next 3 days.
looks like there are quite a few people wanting to see if this works. i have 1 fighter 7 guppies and 3 kuhli loaches. so the 32 degrees wont be a problem for the fighter or guppies .. not too sure about the loaches though (online they say keep between 26 and 30).

 

agreed. make sure your fish can tolerate salt in the water or you could kill them.

otherwise to be safe, just up the temperature and forget about the salt.

 

keep the tank at 32deg for 2 weeks. you will see an improvement only towards the end of the 2 weeks. the loaches, guppies and siamese fighter should all be ok for such a short space of time at that temp.

 

ok, been running my tank at 32 degrees for 2 days now and there is no sign of ICH anymore, this seems to have worked very nicely!!! but i do realise it is still early days!!