ok, here is my question. We are all excited when a discus spawns, but I have heard breeders talk about switching the female ( and male perhaps ) off of breeding mode. How is this done? My reasons for doing this is the following: 1) I have a pair being returned to me which has been on loan to another breeder and the female has spawned numerous times this year already and i'd like to give her a rest 2) I also have fish that I'm growing out that are now about 8/9 months old and their growth rate has been so good that I want them to keep growing and not even THINK about getting into breeding mode so i would like them to be totally switched off until they are large adults. All comments and discussion would be appreciated. Regards Andrew
Well...imo you cant if there is a male in the tank..? And some females as you know even spawn with another female....so you cant really go against nature? So if this is even possible, I would like to know how as well?
I recall asking @Dirk this once. The discussion was mainly around parents who were too young to spawn, but that spawned instinctively in any case... I recall him saying that this just wasn't possible. The only way I suspect you can "turn off" is to seperate them. But as we have recently seen @Aqua going through... even 2 females in the same tank will lay eggs.
Yeah the 2 females spawning together is a common occurence. I illustrated this to a staff member last week by putting 2 females in a breeding cube, then doing a substantial water change. Lo and behold next evening there were eggs. After 36 hours all were chomped, and now these 2 females have been split up. But as you all know Im growing out some healthy discus which i would like to breed with next year and as they are coming near to potential maturity I would like to know what or if there is any way of retarding the sexual maturation. Logic says that if a lower temp and higher pH can induce a spawn, then perhaps keeping the temp at 30 and maintaining a lower pH is the answer.
My logic also says that keeping them in less than prime water (i.e higher temp and correct pH) will stunt their growth? I've also heard that Discus are more susceptible to disease in lower temps?
Not suggesting less than prime water conditions AT ALL. But there must be a way to 'switch' them off as people use this phrase from time to time. 30C is perfect for discus temp wise. But perhaps lowering the pH slightly is the answer?
Ok. Just throwing out ideas. I've also heard the "switchin off" phrase, but don't know how to do it practically.
Ja, ive put a LOT of time, food and effort not to mention cost of electricity etc into my group of 12 that im growing out. The fish are nearing the mark of attaining sexual maturity and so I would just like to be for-armed. When I was breeding chickens we could slow down the sexual maturity of the hens by reducing their light pattern, as the pituitary gland of a bird is linked to the eye ( go figure!!! ) . I think in most guys it is too, actually!!!! My aim is for my fish to continue their awesome growth to attain full grown adult size.
Ok, not the same as Discus but still South American fish With my Ancistrus all i have to do is increase the TDS in the water to a point where they refuse to spawn
Thought as much. Now, do you do this with female ancistrus that have spawned already and you want them to stop spawning, or do you do this with females to prevent them from maturing sexually. Its my understanding that once the female starts maturing sexually her growth rate slows down. That is what Im wanting to avoid if possible.
With you. So for the female that I would like to have a break perhaps increasing the TDS will switch her off. But how to prevent the onset of sexual maturity of my growing fish is the main dilemma. Also, how would one inrease TDS here in the Cape with our fabulously soft water??
@pHish_man The only way to attain and maintain a "switched off" period would be to maintain things as stable as possible. Fluctuating temperature and ph levels will trigger spawning, so doing the opposite will keep them from entering into that spawning mode. Rgds Marco
Ok that makes sense. Stability is the key then. I'm maintaining a pH of between 6.3 and 6.8 on my big tank with temp of around 28.9C. I'm struggling to get this up to 30 at the moment despite two jager 300w and one lifetech 300w. But the conditions are quite constant with small water changes per day rather than one larger one at any given time.
Hi Andrew, No, the TDS higher won't work to switch off discus like catfish and especially not if you have a pH that is around 6. You need to simulate low level water conditions in the Amazonian winter and those are low pH (4) and high temps, but as Marco points out everything must remain constant, no temp fluctuations, no pH fluctuations, not all that easy to achieve here in the Cape. My advice is to place the female with angels or something, get her away from the males completely. Kind regards, Dirk
Hi Dirk Thank you for taking the time out to respond. As you know I am in the process of treating all my angels with flubendazol as a precautionary measure, so this advice of placing the female discus with a group of 6-8 angels is a brilliant idea. Do i maintain a temp of 30C? I ask this as my angels are kept at 26, so if i need to push the temp up to 30 i would like to start adjusting the temp slowly before transferring the discus across to the group of angels. Then the main batch of fish that i would like to prevent sexual maturity coming on is my group of 'teenagers' in my large tank in my reception. This tank is running stable pH 6.3-6.8. im pressuming this slight fluctuation is not significant enough to cause any concerns. Would there be a benefit then of GRADUALLY getting the pH down to a level closer to 4 and keeping it stable there to prevent onset of sexual maturity, or should i just weather the storm and continue with my current routine and keep things stable as @Marco has already suggested. The practicality of getting the pH down to around 4 shouldnt be too difficult as I can run peat in my 250l water change drum to prevent the rise in pH with water changes. Kind regards Andrew
Mmmm slowly, is my advice here. Don't push the temp in the angel tank too high because then you might have a sudden activation of them all to spawn and then the angels will murder each other. I was thinking of half a dozen of angels and the discus, not one of your big groups of angels. I would leave your big batch of discus entirely unchanged because as soon as you start changing conditions then you will actually stimulate them to spawn by for example lowering the pH with peat. Humic acids from the peat will stimulate them to spawn in my opinion. I would see how far they go without wanting to spawn and then if they do start sexual activity then decide what to do, but do nothing now. Kind regards, Dirk