Suggestion: A letter to the minister From TASA owners/founders

Hi All

I want to stir the pot a bit and see if we can get a clear understanding, based on proven fact, by our government on the state of housing and or caring for species that are no longer listed on the blacklist. Instead of starting a heated discussion I want to ask if the Founders of the most recognized Aquarium communities in SA(for the sake of Authority) would be able to write a letter to Minister Molewa based on informed questions that we as a mature and responsible community could add to this letter (So you don't have to do all the work :nuts. I honestly feel that a great amount of confusion would be saved by doing this and I also would like to think that every single member of this forum want to do the right thing based with in the confines of the South African law. I'm sure that anyone in the know would agree with me that TASA, APSA as well as MASA is the place to be when dealing with everything "aquaria", and as such all will benefit from this.

I will be posting this exact same thread on all the above mentioned forums, hopefully to drive the conversation and STIMULATE discussion instead of confusion. If the moderators could sticky this it would be greatly appreciated

Regards

Pieter

 

If someone could post this to the MASA site i would appreciate it, i am not a member.

 

But if species are NOT on the blacklist - why would you want to approach the Minister of Agriculture about this? I don't understand what you are intending to do? It sounds like a good idea, just please explain in more detail about what you are wanting to achieve.

 

http://www.sana.co.za/pdf/government-gazette-9993.pdf

http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=195020

These where published in July 2013. Since this has surfaced on this forum, i think many people are unclear about the state of

1. Keeping species that where blacklisted prior to this publication which are no longer noted on these lists.
2. Trading/import in these same species that have been blacklisted prior to this publication which are no longer noted on these lists.

I sure that everyone would benefit to hear it directly from the Minister responsible. TASA is a widely recognized forum and carries a lot of Authority which can in turn be used to clarify all posts regarding. Maybe i'm just daft or even over eager. but clarity is never a bad thing and tends to bring everyone on the same page. I can read the list myself as i am sure everyone else can, so it is not about what is on the list already since July 2013.

This thread is intended to get members involved by posting questions, relevant to this discussion, that the founders can select from when compiling a document that could be moderated by the top players on these forums and then sent off to the minister. hopefully we will get a response that could clarify these question and as such build on the forum's knowledge base.

 

Here are the same links to the same discussion on both forums.


Tropical Aquariums South Africa


Suggestion: A letter to the minister From APSA owners/founders


if someone would be so kind as to post this to MASA as well that would rock, please add the link to the thread from MASA.

 

I would like to know from the government, whether or not it's legal to keep freshwater shrimp?.

 

+1

 

Good luck. See this thread. Nothing further happened.It seems that no one, especially the government, knows the answer.
Question: Tropical Fresh Water Shrimp legal or not?

 

Well after reading through both lists, it is very clear that FW Shrimp is not illegal anymore, but alas,Plecos are and a few other species in a lot of member's tanks are illegal as of 19th July 2013.I would suggest that everyone gets informed about this new blacklist to prevent Fines and misunderstanding on TASA about what may be discussed and what not.Here is a combined list when it was still a draft but I could not find anything changed from the publication. ftp://ftp.durban.gov.za/Engenv/Aliens/Combined prohibited list.pdf

 

Not to sound rude ,but the shrimp that are in the country were not legally introduced.:smile1:

 

access denied for me, might be work proxy will check at home

 

Sure ,just read the whole not just paragraph b.

 

Could you be a little more specific please.

 

Please understand that this discussion is not about shrimp exclusively. there are numerous other threads that already discuss this to death...

This is about driving the conversation towards getting the correct information regarding all legalized specimens, plants inverts and fish. Not only to keep, but also trade and please don't turn this thread into another shrimp discussion.

I strongly suggest that if it is only the legal status of shrimp, that you follow the thread posted by @ABAB.

 

Why don't you contact the government?.

 

OK let us start off.......This is the new Black list. Anything not on this list is NOT ILLEGAL per se.Anything on this list is ILLEGAL....except if it was.....1a,b,c.....That means if you have a Pleco for instance it is Illegal to keep it except 1a.b.c.....That means you may keep it if you can prove(by way of invoice or import permit) that you bought or imported it before the new list came into law, but if you bought it after the new list came into law you are acting illegally. Yip I know it is unfair but it is no excuse, just like the e-Toll. Just keep in mind that it is a BLACKLIST not a Whitelist. It also replaced the old blacklist, irrespective of whether you bought or kept something on the old blacklist illegally then. You can see it as a "Pardon" for old sins.

 

I will gladly contact them, try get info and so on. The main purpose of this thread was to get questions from the members, as i clearly stated in my very first post. I cannot think that only "can i have shrimp in my tank?" is the only question that this very active forum needs answered, nor do i think its worth a half day discussion.

Why don't you ask some...say like, "Why is this all so unclearly stated in the gazette/list?" or say, i don't know, maybe "Please inform us clearly who we should contact for answers?"

 

True but first of all the members need to understand the Whole Blacklist thingy.Using the Shrimp as an example is easier.We can also use the common pleco for instance.To go one step further let us have a look at Carp or Brown Trout.By law you can be fined or locked up if caught releasing a carp(I don't unless it is an exceptional specimen.They are just too tasty)This just goes to show that the drive to get the correct info will not float.I would suggest that we concentrate on what has been blacklisted and why,and not only FW Fish,moluscs and plants or what is important to us as a FW community but the Blacklist as a Whole.I am sure that I answered your questions logically but I will have a go at it again...............OK let us start off.......This is the new Black list. Anything not on this list is NOT ILLEGAL per se.Anything on this list is ILLEGAL....except if it was.....1a,b,c.....That means if you have a Pleco for instance it is Illegal to keep it except 1a.b.c.....That means you may keep it if you can prove(by way of invoice or import permit) that you bought or imported it before the new list came into law, but if you bought it after the new list came into law you are acting illegally. Yip I know it is unfair but it is no excuse, just like the e-Toll. Just keep in mind that it is a BLACKLIST not a Whitelist. It also replaced the old blacklist, irrespective of whether you bought or kept something on the old blacklist illegally then. You can see it as a "Pardon" for old sins. I am sure you do not need a Government Employee to explain this to you?

 

I completely agree with you @Slojo. and Yes a revised clearly explained list can be created, i'll be the first on to help out in which ever way i can, as i'm sure any other member who has a true passion for this hobby (pardon me "lifestyle") would do. this how ever is not the debate, and yes the result of this discussion should help us provide that exact end goal you suggest. however i'm just a normal dude working for a normal company, doing my normal thing. I'm not a government official who has the correct information from which i can base this accurate updated version of this list we want, and i can not add to that list not knowing what the "correct" info is. Yes so i want shrimp, so i go out and i purchase some from my LFS, because both the LFS (who is not a sponsor) and myself read on this very site that that is is legal now to obtain them, AS AN EXAMPLE which i know is NOT FACT (Before the next guy climbs down my throat). the same LFS looses its trading license and a possible huge fine and the new owner could also catch heat from the fallout.

All i'm saying is lets work together to get the right information, through CLEAR communication, without the emotional uproar that this exact topic has enabled since forever. Kudos to Both @Slojo and @ABAB for trying 1 to keep the peace and 2. communicate 3. getting down to the info we need to make informed decisions.

 

I have just gone through the new list not to start a discussion war again but was seriously laughing at some of the fish that is mentioned in it. I would like to know who sit and make this list? I know, we will never find this out because they really do not have a great deal of wisdom on a lot of the species. I am very glad to see Pangasianodon gigas (aka Pangasuis Catfish) is on the list but sorry the other in the specie is not. As for the people that have guppies (Poecilia reticulata) is now on the black list.

@Pieter Swart - I like your idea for finding clarity. The only problem I can foresee in the quest to the truth is nobody in the government is going to take real ownership and you will be given a snobby "brick wall" answer.