Sponsors – Worth the hassle?

This post will make me even more unpopular and most prob lead to me being banned, but so be it…

For a while now I have been pondering the situation on TASA with the sponsors and the only conclusion that I have been able to come up with is that no it’s not worth the hassles. Here are my reasons why…

The use of sponsors on the website to pay for the hosting fees restricts the freedom of the users by not allowing them to talk openly about shops and not sharing of information on these shops. If a deal if found that is better than a sponsor the thread gets closed as it ends up in a huge barney between the sponsors friends and those users that feel that sponsors shouldn’t rip forum members off… see the infamous Purigen thread http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/showthread.php?t=735

Some of the sponsors make outrageous claims about the fish they sell when it is in fact public knowledge that they come form a wholesaler where any shop can actually buy and thus the fish are not that special. Said sponsor spends more time changing font sizes and colours in post that actually writing a post which makes the posts hard to read.

Two of the sponsors hasn’t made ANY contribution on the forum AT ALL and thus has no benefit to the users on the forum.

Another sponsor deletes any posts or comments in their section that they don’t like and refuse to answer legitimate questions.

Only one of the sponsors seems to be willing to actually help users by posting informative posts and goes out of their way to find out if they don’t have the info on hand.

The admin/mods allow sponsors to openly break not just South African law but also international law (CITIES permits) with any words of condemnation.

Should sponsors not be on a forum to enrich the forum and help the member base by offering them good deals and advice and not just advice that will lead to a sale? In another recent thread there were requests for sponsors to help out with a North vs. South competition on the forum and only ONE sponsor actually came to the party. Hell man I was even willing to sponsor stuff for the competition out of my own pocket.

There is also no recourse for members against sponsors nor any sort of sponsor rating system which can forewarn users about sponsors or allow them to read negative/positive posts about the sponsors. Such a system will allow the end users to at least have some sort of information on hand before they do a deal with a sponsor. I personally feel this system should be link to all users selling stuff on the forum and not just members. On the marine sister site there is a fantastic system in place which rates users much like Ebay. Yes these forum add-ons costs money but that’s why the sponsors pay their fees isn’t it?


What do you guys think?

 

Saw the post that was deleted and got to wondering WHY??
and what is this (CITIES permits)?

 

sorry that should read CITES - the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.Roughly 5,000 species of animals and 28,000 species of plants are protected by CITES against over-exploitation through international trade. They are listed in the three CITES Appendices. The species are grouped in the Appendices according to how threatened they are by international trade. They include some whole groups, such as primates, cetaceans (whales, dolphins and porpoises), sea turtles, parrots, corals, cacti and orchids. But in some cases only a subspecies or geographically separate population of a species (for example the population of just one country) is listed.

You need permits to trade in any animals or plants listed on these lists. CapeNature provided me with a list some time ago and the Madagascar Lace plant was on there.

 

A sponsors should be just that, sponsors

 

This sounds like just another troll thread trying to insight an argument..

People aren't stupid we can make decissions and form opinions on our own, its not something we need your help with henk!

 

Esxuse me Phillip but its not a troll thread at all. I just wanted to point a few things out and ask for a discussion on it between the forum members - thats all...

 

Ok fair enough but you see how it could be offensive..

 

yea i do - hence i put the line at the top of the thread...

 

Henk,

I tend to agree with you to a certain degree... Sponsors for any project, sport, online forum, business etc can in their right remain anonymouns, do not necessarily have to be involved in the specific topic, (i.e we could have a non-fish person sponsoring a fish forum). We are fortunate in the sense that our sponsors are fish enthusiasts, but still, in there right, do no have to be verbal, or involved in the forum.

They are the reason why we can come online and chat free of charge, and Rory doesn't have to charge us a joining fee, or a monthly fee.

I agree with you that it would be nice to get some feedback and interaction from them once in a while... not sure if Zaf & Veeg are a Sponsor, but it they are... they are my hero's of sponsors. You can be guaranteed that they have said something in at least 99% of the threads out here.

I agree with Henk 100% that we SHOULD be able to talk OPENLY IN THIS FORUM about other pet stores. I for one found a new pet store that has opened this month in Constantia (JHB guys... not CT). I know the guy who is supplying the stock, as well as building the fish tanks. There prices on tanks are out of this world, and I think if we could all get out there to support this guy, who knows, we might actually land up with a fish store that can supply good stock, as well as healthy information for beginners.

But, again, I will respect the sponsors and not post any comments about the new store... Pity though... would be nice to help you JHB guys out with a place that sells reasonable stock.

It should also be noted that it is IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone! And when you have a group of people coming together, you will always land up with someone offended!

 

Hit the nail on the head there mate...!


Henk, most of the paragraphs in your first posts are digs at particular sponsors. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who is who so I'm not going to respond to that.

As far as I know the iTrader system is no longer in use at MASA. The official iTrader has been discontinued. There is a company that has taken over supporting it but it is still in development and only on vB 3.8. Frankly the iTrader system went very unused anyway. The only rating system currently on MASA is within the vBClassifieds system which also isn't used that well. I think it is also limited to only the vBClassifieds ads and not ads created in threads. In our recent poll most of the users preferred the old school classifieds forum to the vBClassifieds system. As you know sponsors don't advertise via the classifieds anyway. There aren't any plugins or anything like that for rating users such as sponsors directly. We've also tried the sponsor feedback forum system and that didn't end well either. If people have positive feedback on a sponsor they can post in that sponsors forum. If they have negative feedback they can contact me. I don't see why you have the need to see any negative feedback made public.

Ideally it would be nice if all sponsors were knowledgeable guys who participated in the forum, gave good deals to members and generally did all the good things we'd like to see any LFS do.

 

I sat for awhile pondering whether I should, as a sponsor, respond to this post....so before I begin I just want it to be known that this post is not directed at anyone or about anyone, it is a general point of view which I have and which I have previously stated on the forum.

I've said it before and I'll say it again....it is my opinion that sponsors should help the members of the forum they are sponsoring whenever possible. Be this with advice or by offering special deals to the TASA members. A sponsor, on a forum such as TASA, should not only be here for the potential money they could make, but to assist HOWEVER they are able to. They should be, in my opinion, actively involved in the discussions and threads, welcoming new members, assisting with any questions asked if they are able to, etc etc etc

Yes Zoom - Zafgak and myself are sponsors (The Fish Nook) - thanks for your kind words We certainly do not know everything there is to know about fishkeeping and what we may not know we will research and answer when we can. We believe in passing on as much information as possible to the members of the forum rather than sitting back, knowing the answers perhaps, and not helping out when asked.

And yes, you DEFINATELY cannot please everyone - there will always be those who are unhappy about things, no matter what you do. I think the goal should be to please as many people as possible .... and even that is a hefty goal to achieve!

 

What I was thinking with the supplementing of the funding is maybe Rory can add a donate button which will allow members to donate money, then the members can, if they wish, get a special bad or something. We have this on another VERY large forum that I am involved with. If members donate sufficiently there won’t be a need for the sponsors on the forum then.

As I said to Rory this morning on Skype I will be willing to donate R50 a month – that adds up to R600 a year – 25% of the costs of the forum hosting and software for the year. If we manage to raise more fund that needed we can buy more cool add-ons for the forum.

Zaf & Veeg are indeed sponsors and great sponsors at that. They are actually active members on the forum and not just out there to make a quick few rand off the members.

With regards to the shops being named and spoken about I think it is ok to name them you may just not post contact details… which can be done via PM in any case.

I agree that you can’t please everyone… it’s a very fine line that one has to tread.

Rory…

I am not taking a dig at anyone – simply posting my observations of what I have seen on forum.

It is a pity that there isn’t a proper rating system for the sponsors but as you said this morning the systems were in place on MASA and it wasn’t actually used that much.

 

Henk..i see you have mentioned in another post that the lace plant is not ON the cites list and apologised to the sponsor..wouldn it be advisable 2remove the reference 2cites on this thread before members think that sponsors are acting in contravention of the cites list.

 

Lots of very good points are being raised. but guys we all have one thing in common we love our fish we live to have better tanks and healthier fish.
Veegal and Henk you guys both make good points as well as some of the other guys.
If you selling something private or as a online shop and its priced cheaper some were else guys should be able to discuss were to get what from and what the prices are.

 

Cant edit that post... already tried. Seems to be time locked or something

 

I know I am new on this forum, but I am on most of the other local fish keeping forums. This is my take on the whole sponsor thing...

Firstly, I have contacted a few of the sponsors on this forum and had nothing but good feedback from all of them. I can't say a bad word about any of the sponsors here. Most will go out of their way to help you and find solutions to help you out. Now, I keep and breed Dwarf Cichlids. Very rare to find anything other than Apistogramma Cacatuoides locally. I spoke to a number of the guys and only 1 was able to source other strains for me. The others were willing to help, but the local demand for them hasn't been too good for them in the past. But the other stuff I wanted, the other guys came through, no problem.

Now, I think sponsors are definitely necessary. Depending on donations to make your monthly hosting costs is kind of like standing on the side of the road begging. Having the sponsors negates the need to beg for hosting costs. If you see something cheaper in a certain shop, than what the sponsor is charging, so what? Go buy it from the shop then. You don't need to use the sponsors, they are there for helping out the forum. If the shop doesn't have something specific, get hold of a sponsor. Sometimes it is worth paying the extra R50 to get the thing you are after as soon as possible. Other times, it dosn't really matter.

Personally I think the sponsors on this site, whom I have contacted, have been nothing but absolutely helpful. The service I get from them is brilliant and I would actually like to single one of them out... Maybe in another thread, not for this one.

Anyways, I'll get off my soapbox now...

 

Just some thoughts.... From a purely economic point of view, it must be good business to offer a forum discounts? If a sponsor offers say 10% discount on goods, but gains 20 or 30% increase in sales as a result of forum sponsorship, then that must be good business sense? As a result, reputations are built on fair deals, and the potential for even higher % returns must be greatly increased?

As for any sponsor offering goods at over inflated prices, sure they'll make a quick buck, but in the long run, business will dry up very quickly!

Despite this, I personally feel that we should be able to openly discuss our experience with both sponsors and non sponsoring LFS's so people are aware of good and bad business practices, especially when some may be effectively stealing from unsuspecting customers? Surely a name and shame type discussion should naturally lead to improvement of service? Any one with a good business mind would know that keeping customers happy and feeling like they got a good deal would naturally lead to more customers and loyalty?

As for 'bad sponsors', I would encourage u all to email rory about your experience. If enough of u cpmplain, then hopefully some action will be taken, resulting in either the sponsor being suspended or at worst improving their business dealings!

I realise that this is quite a simplistic view but if we do not tolarate being taken for a ride, then dealers are forced to get their act together or loose all their business!

Anyhow, my main advice is to shop around for best prices, and don't buy on impulse! That's my advice for anything u buy, not just fish stuff!

Cheers!
Big G!

 

Quite a few sensible posts on this thread.
With respect to sponsors vs members supporting this forum I'd rather deal with the "hassle" from a few sponsors than from hassle from any members under the illusion that they've somehow "bought" something.

Initially this forum wasn't actually going to have *any* sponsors at all. The only reason the sponsors are here at the end of the day is to be beneficial to the members. The members are what "makes" the site.

 

Never a truer word spoken!!!! :bigsmile:

 

totally agree ,,, came across this site by accident and everyone seems to want to help one another and give advice that is for the best, not like some LFS that to them the best advise leads to there pockets.