South african laws. Need some info.

I'm quite honestly really tired of hearing so much false info regarding what I may or may not keep in south africa. Is there someone I can contact or something to get REAL information from? No, don't point me to a website because all the websites I got referred to over the weeks were dead, broken and offline.

Please guys, it's time someone got some real info and not speculation.

 

Department of environmental affairs would be the responsibile govt dept for this, will you get what you're looking for, perhaps with lots of patience and effort.
I'm trying not to be a downer...

 

been there and cannot find the correct email to use on that site. I got directed to someone on that site that doesn't even exist.

No worries, but please excuse me if I'm a but rude... I'm quite honestly a bit peeved off at how hard it is to get info on our own frecking laws.

 

You will need to be a bit more specific what you are trying to establish, and don't forget your bylaws.

 

I want to know what is legal to keep and what's not. I don't want speculation. For example snails. all snails are legal to keep yet people deny that fact all the time. shrimps too. they are legal to keep, but like snails, they are illegal to import. crayfish? that's a huge unknown. crabs? unknown. they all SAY they are illegal, but really, thats just one of the things I've heard. I've heard they are illegal in cape town but legal in JHB for example. Honestly, I just want to know where it's legal to keep what.

 

hmmm so I did a quick catchup on your recent posts seems like you have asked these questions and got some answers from the members already. Am I to assume you are now looking for more substantial information like a legal opinion quoting the relevant sections of the law?

What bits of legislation have you studied in your search - it is tangled web.

 

I couldn't study anything cos I could literally find nothing, lol, only that a few dumb idiots dumped their crayfish into rivers that caused the whole illegal charade, lol

Tangled web is a.... Huge understatement. Honestly its plain depressing.

you are right, a few people did answer my questions, but not quite completely. I'm in search of a real legal opinion like you said, from someone who really really really knows their stuff without being biased (I'm not saying anyone is biased. this place has a few awesome members)

 

Maybe start here

http://www.invasives.org.za/

esp

http://www.invasives.org.za/legislation/what-does-the-law-say

 

I cannot find any information that says its wrong to actually keep any of those animals or not. they just list what's invasive or not, nor do I find any of the names of some of the species we as hobbyists would be interested in.

 

Well they have a contact us link ask them directly see what they come back with.

 

I am sorry but then you have not actually read the blacklist in full

The blacklist (i have posted a link to it and a fully operational site) on the blacklist thread and it is correct

The blacklist has two sections, invasive which goes by areas where in some areas you cant keep and others you can.
This is due to the different climates where those species will thrive... same applies to plants and trees

The second part, if you scroll down enough, has the prohibited species which apply to the whole country

The shrimp story is the only controversial issue that i know of.. yes they were black listed but due to the thousands in the country, i believe you allowed to keep them but not import more species.
However, they are not on the 2016 blacklist
The glitch, as i understand it, is that there is supposed to be a white list and when they go off the blacklist they must go on the white list
No one in any department can give you the so called 'white list' as with many things in our country, the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing... sorry... dont mean to offend anyone

Trust me.. i have been there when i wanted to bring in my black diamond rays... spoke to all the right people... spent a fortune on an environmental assessment etc.... in the end none of it was needed and the rays are now being imported as they are not on the black list

Crayfish are blacklisted, full stop
The rest is all very straight forward

 

I don't think I saw the link you posted. at least I don't remember seeing yours. can you please post it again for me, I'd appreciate it. Also, exactly why on earth may shrimp not be imported?

Ok, so are crayfish prohibited in some areas like you said first, or completely illegal all over like you said at the end?

Edit: The link you talk about doesn't show for me. If you mean the invasives site, I did read it fully but it's a stupidly confusing site.

 

@Umbra,

Go to forums
Blacklisted species
2016 blacklist... i have just gone in and it opened...

Crayfish are blacklisted everywhere at this stage... prohibited

 

Spoke with MariaS and we both found out that some crayfish are infact not on the blacklist, so crayfish like the mexican dwarf crayfish is legal to keep. will make a thread soon about it

 

Because it is not only the shrimp itself that is of concern, but also all of the pathogens and parasites it may carry. While a Neocaridina shrimp may not survive a Highveld winter outside, there is no information on whether any of their diseases can infect and impact indigenous crustaceans.

Are you aware of the fungus disease that is systematically wiping out all the New World frog species? Do you know how it got to the New World? Do you know the quantum of human effort, money and frustration going into saving what is left of the New World amphibian fauna? Do a bit of research, and understand patience and knowledge are necessary in this matter. One mistake, and you lock future generations into a prolonged battle with yet another invasive alien. You will be perfectly okay if you can't keep crayfish as pets for the foreseeable future, I can assure you of that.

 

Didn't mean to offend you.

 

Okay, and no offence taken either. As long as you understand this is a very complex issue, and the conservation guys are dealing with a lot on their plate already. Over and above that, our natural ecosystems have to deal with urban development, pollution and eutrophication, over-extraction of groundwater, global warming and its effects, gene pool depletion, hybridisation due to inadvertent transfers, weirs and dams that alter watercourses and migration routes, silting due to poor agricultural practices, an already long list of invasive aliens - the list goes on. Most folks have no idea whatsoever what a knife edge our indigenous water ecosystems are sitting on, and the future looks bleak. A seemingly harmless or tolerable invasive alien under such circumstances can become the straw that breaks the camel's back, and cause local extinctions. So I don't mean to offend you either, but one's urge to keep funky pets is a pretty low priority by comparison.

 

ah, yes, I understand that. the thing is that mexican dwarves were here for years now, I'm not willing to import any. I also agree, protecting the ecosystem is pretty important, but I am also just putting info out there which I found out. I guess a better way to say is that MDC are legal but only for people who wouldn't let them go, and if so, I can understand why people'd say they are illegal as to deter any inexperienced keeper from getting them that may let them go.

 

I differ on their legality. As far as I understand the situation, it is undecided and will remain so for the time being due to lack of information and lack of resources to generate that information, with a strong advisory to the side of caution rather than liberty. So the status quo is that pet owners will not be prosecuted for possession of MDC, even though it is technically illegal to have them. Some stores exploit the vacuum in enforcement and sell them. I outright refuse to buy from such shops, and if they had any vestige of common sense, they would stop selling any and all temperate and sub-tropical crustacean species until the issue has been resolved, however long that may take. If you already have a crayfish: keep it well contained, don't let it breed, and when it perishes, don't replace it with another one. Don't stoke the fires of a fad for keeping them, and admonish stores that sell them.

The law does not weigh one's mental state in deciding who can and can't keep certain pets (although it probably should - some people are too nuts to keep any living thing, even pot plants). Protecting nature is not just pretty important, it is overwhelmingly imperative, and the alternative is too ghastly to contemplate. It boils down to a bowl of lentil soup.

 

I have no comment on that. I gave information and it's up to you to accept it or not. Read my other thread and you'll see the proof.