Sick male guppy (cancer?)

Hi guys, as some of you will remember that about 2 days ago I added a bag of rooibos tea to my 95l, that day I noticed my male guppy seemed a bit lathargic - not from the tea obviously. so I decided to keep an eye on him, yesterday morning I noticed signs of organ failure (dropsy) so I added a dose of bio-elite heal all (parasites and bacteria) he was the only one to get sick during the quarantine (fin rot) when I first set up the tank, regardless since 2 days ago he always seemed to swim into the current with his right side away from me - so I didn't notice the bulge growing on that side (my camera can't pick it up but there is some reddening as well) any thoughts on what it might be? It seams as though His intestines are pressing through (it's not through completely through though) All my other guppies are fine.

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I found a form you guys seem to prefer so here goes:

General
Where do you stay? Middelburg Mp

How long have you been keeping tropical fishes? 3 months (had a goldfish in a bowl for 2 years before though = I know better now...)

How long has the tank been running before you added fish/this fish? (had cycled media and a bottle of those "add fish instantly" so 2 days.
What fish do you have in your Tank (type, number and size)? 3 adult female guppies 1 adult male and a batch of fry (say 20? That was born 3 days into quarantine = quarantine lasted 2 weeks) about 4-7 red cherry shrimp.
When did you last buy any new fish? 5 December
Which food are you feeding and how often do you feed? I feed either blood worms (heavily in first two weeks once a week now) crushed peas twice a weak and tetra tropical flakes 2 Daily on days that I don't feed the other stuff


Disease
Describe the problem that the fish is having (behaviour, breathing, excretion (droppings), food intake, colour)? Lifted scales & bloating (dropsy) a bulge on the right side of the torso with some reddening fish seems lethargic.

Is the fish eating? Some
Has the problem occurred before?: No
Have you treated the problem and how?

Have you had any other problems in the past?
What were they? Fin rot at quarantine with a secondary infection =the tail has been healing up ever since.

Did you treat for these problems?
How? Yes heal all (according to labeled dosage) regular water changes

Your aquarium & Maintenance
How big is the tank. (L x b x h)? Not sure it's the fluval accent sold as 85x40x57 but I remember it's actual dimensions to be a little less.

How many litres of water? 95l

What type of filter do you run? A spunge filter
What is IN the filter? Sponge

How many litres per hour is the filter rated for? Idk

How often do you clean your tank? Every Saturday

How do you clean your tank? 30% water change with gravel vacuum.
How much water do you take out for Water change?

Do you prepare your water for water changes? How and what do you add?
What water do you use. (Tap, bore hole, RO)? I use tap water (just add the changed amounts worth of water conditioner after the change.
What substrate do you have? Washing sand (silicate based I believe)
What else is in the tank (Rocks, plants, fake plants, shells, anything else)? I have lava rock (picked up locally and boiled) as well as Java fern and Java moss (some green algae and brown algae (brown from the substrate I believe = nothing overwhelming)

Water parameters in your aquarium
Describe the water (smell and colour)? No odor
Temperature of the water? 50 watt heater set on 22° but the thermometer shows 24° - 25°
General hardness (GH)? >16°d or higher
Carbonate hardness (KH)? 6-10°d it fluctuates there.
Ammonia:
Nitrite (No2-)? 0
Nitrate (No3-)? 0
PH? 6.4 possibly lower test doesn't go lower
How did you test these? Have you checked the expiry date on the test kits? Test strips (were the cheapest at the time) not expired

Lights
What light do you have? The provided led one
How long is the light on for? From 6am to 9pm
Do you have lots of plants in the tank (real or fake)? Real plants not a lot
How do you fertilize the plants? With liquid fertilizer.

If possible, can you post some pictures of
(1) The sick fish
(2) A close up of the sick fish, and/or effected area
(3) the full tank
Pictured to be provided this evening

 

All except the one with the arrow was before he got sick the provided filter in the back (wood decor) has since been removed since it gobbles up fry. forgot to add the red ramshorn in the stocking list but he was a tag along with the shrimp (In quarantine I had to fight of pond snails and those white planeria? Worms.) They're all good now lost a bunch of shrimp in quarantine though. Maybe 1 since they've been added to the 95l they hide well so I can't be sure. The tea bag has been removed after 24h.

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I think he's just old and starting to go down hill. My old toppies go the same way, I have an old female starting to show signs that she'll be handing in her keys soon. Guppies don't live very long. You're tank parameters look fine so it's nothing you did to cause this. Best advice I can give you with guppies is, let them breed(They just do) and them focus on your youngsters. You'll get their full life expectancy and they do much better than store bought adults.

 

Would just like to add and you probably know this but guppies will decimate your shrimp population, they rip them apart especially when a female is berried.

 

I did feed heavily in quarantine and had to diet them lol. But their tummies were huge and now it's much better. I wonder if it couldn't be constipation or something? That was a good 3 weeks ago though.

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Hence the tons of hiding space. They don't seem to be bothered by them at all. The fry did inspect and pick at some of them at first but no confirmed kills yet. I have 2 heavily berried females now so I'll keep an eye on them (didn't know about the berried females being more aggressive towards shrimp)

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Just give them time. Took mine a few months to figure it out. Once they did they where like little sharks. They took a 500+ population down to below 50 very quickly. I wasn't worried as the shrimp was my culls, all very low grade cherries. I must say the guppies bred very well with this plentiful food source haha. I never saw shrimplets in that tank after they started feeding on the shrimp so I gave the guppies their own tank, same size as yours.

The other way around. The guppies go for the eggs on the female shrimp tearing her apart, even my baby guppies joined in.

 

Forgot to say(replying while working). If you see that the little guy is only getting worse over the next few days, don't feel bad to put him down. I keep an eye on my old ones and when I see it's going to be tickets I end their suffering(don't flush, put him in the freezer). When they start to swim with a floppy floaty motion it's over. I prefer to do this as I think it's more humane to the fish and also better for the rest of them. They tend to pick at the carcass and I don't want that, rotting meat is also not good in a closed system as it will elevate bacteria levels. So keep an eye on him, if things doesn't improve end it humanely.

This is my ethical opinion so the decision is yours to make. If you decide not to cull it's also fine, it's very hard to do(we are fish lovers after all) and after culling hundreds of fish I still feel bad every single time but looking back it was the right thing to do and I'll continue to do so.

 

Not on topic but related to the title but can fish even get cancer? Never seen it myself and if I remember correctly sharks can't.

 

Yes, fish including sharks can get tumours.

http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/topics/p_bite_on_cancer.htm

Ingesting shark cartilage does unfortunately not cure cancer in humans

 

Thanks @Jwh

 

Okay I just got home and at first I couldn't find him, however I found him hiding behind rocks (when I tried to catch him out I noticed something that looked like an old food granule fall away from him, at first I thought he was resting on it- but I've never fed granular foods before...) when I caught him (still quite fast) I noticed that the bulge on his side was gone and there's only an open wound. So I decided to pull the 'old food granule' and it looks like a piece of him (only colorless) so is it a tumor or paracite eggs? I don't know. He's more lethargic than usual though.. I'm having difficulty getting a picture of the open wound.

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So after thinking about it I lean towards parasites, what tumor would just remove itself. Parasites however might need to, also it is just under 24h after adding a dose of heal all... I've got the piece in some 'quarantine water' will see what it does...

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That appears to be a build-up of sorts, which can be caused by a number of things - bacteria, viruses, or parasites. What is noticeable for me, at least, is in that first image of the guppy, the scales are protruding, especially evident on the ventral surface behind the anal fin. This buildup alongside the scales says to me that this is "dropsy", a catch-all term for bloating associated with protruding scales, typical of an internal accumulation of either parasites and their byproducts, or an infection and its byproducts.

I suspect an infection, which may have weakened the abdominal wall. If there are other fish in the tank, perhaps they saw the weakness in this fish, and attacked, facilitating the breakaway of this mass.

Of course, this is mostly speculation on my part. Either way, the open wound would be susceptible to infection, so keep an eye out for signs of infection and treat accordingly. I'm unsure if your fish will survive after this incident, and furthermore if this event marks the end of its internal problems. If he appears to be struggling, do not hesitate to euthanize him as mentioned before in this thread.

 

I've never seen something like this before, extremely fascinating. I wish the little guy the best of luck in recovery, he's surely been through hell thus far. I wonder if there's any biologists on the forum? Would be great to get a scientific explanation of what happened.

 

It's done, attached is a pic of the wound I couldn't capture before, will still monitor the other piece make sure it's not a parasite. I will be doing a massive water change, gravel vac and filter cleaning on Saturday. I'll also finish with the prescribed 7 days of the heal all (can't do any harm right?). Any other ideas that might help prevent this? Would raising the water temp help?

Thanks for your help and support..

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I have read through this thread and it is fascinating.

I have never seen a parasite cause a hole this big..
Im more inclined to think that its an infection but difficult to tell what caused it... could be an abscess which unlike a malignant tumour, could pop open.
Could also have been caused by an injury

Personally, I would not raise temperature as, raising temperature to speed up the life cycle of parasites to aid in treatment is good but, if not a parasite and its an infection, raising the temperature encourages bacterial and fungal growth
I would keep temperature as is and continue with the medication
Good luck with the little guy

Edit.. Sorry Stephan.. I didn't realize you lost him.. thought you had netted him to see... apologies and sorry for the loss

 

Sorry for your loss Stephan.