Preparing a 4ft tank for 5-7 discus.

Discussion in 'General Discus discussions' started by Broder, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Broder

    Broder

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    To cut through all of the preamble, I have a 4 ft tank, running for about a year now. Filtration is a cascade canister filter with sponge pre filter, first compartment is filter wool, 2nd and 3rd are ceramic noodles and sponge. Substrate is pfp and River gravel cap. There is a 1000 odd l/hr circulation pump, but I'll only run it once in a while to kick up crud.

    parameters are: ph 7.7
    alkalinity 4,5dKH
    NO3 0,5ppm
    temp 30C (which I was surprised by, but in the process of dropping it to 28C.)


    Tank mates will be about 15 cories, blue Panaque, 4 rio Ukalayi (sp) ancistruss and some otocinclus.

    What must change and how do I do it, bearing in mind that the low tech plants must survive as well?
     
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  3. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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  4. Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Very nice looking tank. Personally I will only add some Spider wood, on the lefthand side of the tank. Only reason for this will be to create some hiding places for the Discus and defuse the light a bit, else the tank is perfect. O and the Panaque will love chomping on the wood
     
  5. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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    Thanks Pierre. Will look at that for sure.

    Our tap water which I use for changes is also ph 7,7. I have a RO filter, but don't know what ph it produces, until I've replaced perished pipes and mopped up the remaining surprise.
     
  6. Mike Roos

    Mike Roos

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    Good and regular water changes . Siphon as well!
    Nice looking tank @Broder!:tongue:
     
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  7. aqua dude

    aqua dude

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    Awesome tank!!
    Cant wait to see your discus
     
  8. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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    Thanks guys. I just put the pic up to make sure that there is enough swimming space etc. I don't have any discus yet... Don't even know where to find any around here. At least that gives me time to get the water chemistry right... Once I know where it's supposed to be at.
     
  9. Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    Don't worry too much about the chemistry. Personally I noticed that if your water temp is between 28 and 30 and you keep the water clean, constant water changes. The discus will be happy. Only exception will be if you have wild caught discus or your @Marco.
     
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  10. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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    Thanks Pierre. I'd like to keep it as simple as possible, so I like your advice:). The thing is, I read on the net that discus stress at ph over 7. My problem is that with a dKH of 4,5(soft water), my ph should be lower. According to how I understand it, soft water will naturally be more acidic?
     
  11. Mike Roos

    Mike Roos

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    Don't you worry too much on the PH. Go and check some of @Marco threads and you will see. Even speak to him. He is always up for some experienced advice. @Flash has some nice Discus he will also tell you water changes lol. But he has quite some experience as well.
     
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  12. Pierré Schoonraad

    Pierré Schoonraad Rainbow Freak

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    To be honest. I have no idee I never use a test kit.
     
  13. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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    Okay.. So ready to rock and roll.. Next- Mission Find Discus!
     
  14. dorff

    dorff

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    No, that is not correct. Very soft water, and especially demineralised water, is more prone to pH fluctuations. Since pfp and wood release tannic and humic acids, these produce acidity in very clean RO water. But the mere fact that water is soft does not make it acidic per se.

    Any hardness (typically CaCO3) will precipitate tannic and humic acids, as calcium tannates and humates. Carbonates will offset an increase in acidity by forming CO2 that will degas and prevent the pH from falling too far.
     
  15. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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    Great, thanks for that explanation Dorf. So given the low 4,5dKH and the PFP substrate and wood in the tank, it should naturally lean towards a lower ph? Possibly my alkalinity test kit is faulty, but I doubt it.(Salifert exp in 2016).

    So how can I lower the ph without further reducing the alkalinity?
     
  16. dorff

    dorff

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    I am not sure. In fact it is a pretty darned good question, but one must remember that fish tanks are not simple systems, and there are many chemicals from various sources that play a role. My point was merely that RO water has no buffering, and therefore becomes more acidic than tap water (which contains Ca and Mg ions) from the same exposure to tannins and humins.

    The proprietary pH test kits should be able to handle typical aquarium chemistry, tannins and humins included, and I would also doubt that the reading you are getting is way out. But you can always cross-check using a different method (colour sticks, pH meter or whatever). Hope you find the answer.
     
  17. Sean J

    Sean J

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    You don't really want to lower the PH just yet. Unless you are intending to breed them in that tank, which I am guessing, you wont want to do. They will spawn, but the odds of them raising fry in a community tank is very small.

    I'm going to jump in here with a little advice from my side as well. Just remember, I am NOT saying discus cannot be kept in a planted tank. I am just saying it's tricky.

    Firstly, it is extremely difficult to raise discus in a planted aquarium. There are a few reasons for this, but the main reason is the waste they produce. You will need to feed juvenile discus up to 8 times a day in order to get them to grow. They need to be fed a high protein diet. They need this amount of food because all discus (except Parasite Free fish) have intestinal worms. They need to eat loads in order to keep the worms and themselves well fed. This causes a few issues in a planted tank.

    1: Cleaning the gravel and substrate becomes a right pain. Especially if you're using PFP as a substrate. If the wasted food and fish waste is not removed the nitrates and nitrites will go through the roof. This is obviously not great for Discus. So your frequency of water changes will increase as well.

    2: The increase in waste within the aquarium will lead to problem algae issues. The most common will be thread algae and dust algae. So your maintenance on the aquarium will need to be increased dramatically.

    Secondly: Due to the high temperatures required by discus, your plant selection has to include plants that can withstand temperatures of up to 30 degrees. There are a few species that will work just fine, but the majority will not enjoy the increased temps. Especially mosses.

    Plants that will work are the following: Java Ferns, some Cryptocorynes, Bolbitus Ferns, Anubias species, Some hardy stems like Rotala rotundifolia, Lymnophilia aromatica, etc. The more low tech plants should work.

    Thirdly: Stability is king with discus. I have been keeping my discus at a Ph of around 7 for quite some time. They are fine. They eat, they are growing and they breed every week in the tank. This is not a breeding tank, however, it is a rearing tank. So I'm not too worried about dropping Ph and hardness just yet. Keeping their conditions stable is far more important that worrying about the parameters for breeding at this stage.

    If you really want discus for your planted aquarium, my advice is to get the biggest fish you can find. From 10cm, they are easier to keep in a planted tank. And you don't have to feed them as much. But if you get 5cm fish, you'll need to ensure that you raise them and feed them properly. And for this, I would advise that you raise them in a completely separate, bare bottom tank.

    I know it probably wont be an issue, seeing as you come from a marine background, and the maintenance involved with that is challenging, to say the least. So if you are up for a challenge, then it's a great step.
     
  18. Flash

    Flash

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    Hi @Broder

    Nice tank you have there!

    Based on my personal experience I would suggest:

    1) Temp - never below 29. 29 to 30 is perfect for a discus tank. I find that 28 is just a tad to cool for them and they tend to stress a bit quicker and are a bit jumpy at lower temps. I keep all my discus at 30 - 31. This also has a benefit, that IF eskom goes at it again, you have a little bit of a "safe guard" if the temp had to drop.
    2) As @Mike Roos has mentioned, waterchanges , waterchanges waterchanges lol! Depending on the size of the discus you will be getting and also factoring in your current livestock, I would suggest 40 to 50% water changes twice a week. This is where planning comes in. Can you prepare lets say 100 to 120L water at once? (Bearing in mind the water needs to be on par with the tanks temperate) Alternatively you can do smaller but more frequent water changes, for example, 20 to 30% every other day.
    3) Siphon - Discus are quite messy eaters, you will need to siphon out all the crud at the bottom when doing waterchanges.
    4) Food, what are you planning on feeding them? They need a varied but balanced diet to be happy. (Dry,Frozen and live foods)
    5) There is also a golden rule with discus so bare this in mind : Give a discus a place to hide and it will......
    6) Discus don't like to much traffic around them. Is your tank placed in such a point where for example the kids won't run past the tank and give them a fright? Is it placed in such a way, that they will see you approaching them? They can get startled quite easily.
    7) Feeding, if they are juvies, you will need to feed them quite a bit (5 to 8 times a day), otherwise they will grow out stunted. Adult discus can be fed 2 to 3 times per day.

    Feel free to ask if there's any info you require, but to sum it all up, as stated before, they want warm clean water and lots of food , then they'll be completely happy :)

    This is based on my experience with tank bred Discus, however, wild's are completely different story....

    Cheers!
    G
     
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  19. Flash

    Flash

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    Some good pointers there @Sean J :top:
     
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  20. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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    Great points that I had no idea I had to consider. Thanks Sean!
     
  21. OP
    Broder

    Broder

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    Thanks Flash. You and Sean have given great input.
     

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