Powder blue Ramirezi

Discussion in 'Breeding' started by Marco, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Hi everyone,

    Some of you may already know that I have been working with M.Ramirezi (Rams) for the past 18mths.
    At first my goal was only to breed them as it seemed impossible given the quality of Rams we are subjected to in South Africa.
    When that was done my next goal was to breed all the available variants, ie Electric blue, Blue and Golden.
    I then stumbled upon an article by an American breeder who "created" a fourth type which he called "Powder blue Rams".
    His pictures showed what I thought then was probably the nicest looking Ram around - and so I set out to duplicate them.
    I can now finally, after 4 generations of breeding them introduce you to our own Powder Blue Rams right here in SA.
    Hope you guys like them.
    Sorry about the picture quality - they move so quickly its really hard to get them without some blur.

    Rgds

    Marco


    IMG-20130227-WA0001.jpg



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    Powder blue.jpg

    IMG-20130227-WA0001.jpg

    Powder blue.jpg

    ForumRunner_20130227_180103.jpg
     
    TankMaster likes this.
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  3. Hawk

    Hawk Clown Fish :-)

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    Nice but I must say I still like the normal German Blue Rams or in your case SABR.
     
  4. Ryno

    Ryno Kenaal baber

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    It looks nice. I still dot get why the call it German blue rams. I call them ramirezi. There is in fact nothig german in them? Any ways so youre not getting tired of raising all those fry yet?
     
  5. woerman

    woerman

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    Congrats Marco! I need to come visit you soon
     
  6. Gordon

    Gordon

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    Nice Marco :)

    @Ryno they're called German Blue Rams because the ones coming from the East were such bad quality that everyone wanted the ones bred in Germany (which are awesome). Now even the ones bred in the East are sold as German Blue Rams, just so people will think they're awesome and buy them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  7. Ryno

    Ryno Kenaal baber

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    Cool i hate that name. But learned something new
     
  8. TankMaster

    TankMaster Apistogramma

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    @Marco . . . You've done something amazing here. Not many people will notice how great these fish are.

    You were telling me about the base colour and I can see that it is much brighter, and cleaner, than an Electric Blue ram.

    I'm a lover of dwarf cichlids. Having my own little ram project in the works, I can appreciate what you have done here.

    Well done. Hope to see these in MANY tanks in the future.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  9. FishLover

    FishLover

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    Really pretty!!
     
  10. Firefly

    Firefly Pleco

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    Nice one. Congrats!
     
  11. Reedfish

    Reedfish Moderator

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    @Marco,

    Really nice looking fish.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  12. Jagwa

    Jagwa

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    now i want to try
     
  13. Altum

    Altum Sponsor

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    I like that fish!
    Very cool to see these now trickling out!

    I cannot decide What the phenotype to the left of the featured specimen is..
    In other words, is it a late bloomer, a dull version, or an unrelated cross?


    I'm sure you have discussed this with me, but it would help to repeat it here for everyone

    Curious to find out Original parents survival, and lifespan?

    Do you have any pics of your Electric Blue Ram broodstock with either or both, Silvergrey OR Golden heads for comparison?

    Did you use available Gold or the RedGold to cross with EBR?

    It is only in the last 5 years , hobby is seeing increased variety of Rams with alteration in background and foreground pattern, colour and metallic coverage. It is quite nicely exploited .

    :noworry:Some may say all these new Ram are a Mutt...BUT I like the derivatives as much as the wild and enhanced "German/Dutch/EURO" forms..
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  14. thysie

    thysie

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    when can we come and collect some juvi's from you
     
  15. Dolphin

    Dolphin

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    well done! two thumbs up!

    I'm in PTA on sunday and would love to have a look at these if possible?
     
  16. Sean J

    Sean J

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    Nice @Marco!! Those are really nice fish! I must admit to not being a fan of the Electric blue ram, but I don't mind the Powder type. I am beginning to become more of a purist in my old age, and the natural looking fish are floating my boat at the moment! I guess it is probably because of my current business adventure. Nature Aquarium style is often not really associated with the gaudy colouring of "line bred" fish.

    But, you sir, with your "parasite free" aquarium fish are seriously doing this hobby a favor.

    I do have a question for you regarding your parasite free fish.

    What are the constraints of acclimating your parasite free fish into a system which houses normal fish? Do you need to slowly introduce the fish to get them to build up their immune systems over time? Are there any precautions to take heed of when introducing them into a mature system? I'm certainly keen on some Rams for my 200L display tank, and I would like to get some of yours, but I am just wary of adding them with the fish that are currently in the system.

    Does that make sense?

    Regards

    Sean
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  17. OP
    Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Hi @Sean J

    Im with you on the Electric blue Rams. I never liked them much. I find the base colour to be slightly "off", especially in the head region.
    I must say though that the Blue on the "red-golden" base does look much nicer.

    To answer your question one has to first realise that Parasites and bacteria/viral infections are totally different.
    To a certain bacteria an organism can become immune over time, and then even if repeated exposure to the bacteria occurs, the organism does not get affected.
    Parasites however is very different. A fish for instance can never become immune to a parasite. It can of course survive with the parasite and live a "normal" life, but in some way the fish is still affected. Its very evident in especially Discus where PF discus seem to grow fastet, bigger and have better colour than same type which is not parasite free.

    With that in mind, specifically related to Rams, I have found the young to grow extremely fast if parasite free. My best results were with a previous batch where the offspring themselves spawned at an age of only 11 weeks. Accepted standard seems to be 14-16 weeks, so at best they are still 3 weeks behind. Remarkable really.

    If parasite free fish are to be introduced to a normal tank set-up-I did some homework on this and the only material I found gave an indication that it takes about 6 weeks for the new fish to then be infected as per other tankmates infections. No loss is suffered, no special care needed to aid, its just a general adaptation which occurs without any signs.
    With Rams especially flagellates and subsequant bacterial issues are a problem.
    I have had multiple specimens that I used to breed into my lines etc, and no matter what I did, giving them the same care I give all my own Rams etc, within three to four months the new addition and its mated "half" would die. I have not yet been able to prevent this.
    My own PF rams that I still have a few off have none of those issues.

    These Powder blues are not pf yet. I left them with the parents untill free swimming and then only moved them. If I get to breed these though I will make sure the offspring is PF again.
    I have however stopped with normal Blue, Golden and Electric blue rams due to space constraints. Ill try and breed these for a short while and get them fixed, but then Ill be closing the book on Rams.
    Theyve been kind to me but its taken lots of my time and constant attention.
    Ive thus neglected my Discus and now want to get back to that, and mostly that. Ive had a few eye-openers of late and its time I focus on my own fish.

    Thank you for your interest Sean. You must still come visit some time - hopefully convert you to Discus again when you do.

    Regards

    Marco
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  18. Hawk

    Hawk Clown Fish :-)

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    So can we arrange a batch of your m.ramirezi to Cape Town now that you are done with them? I would still love good quality Blue Rams which I'm sure yours are.
     
  19. Ziyaadb

    Ziyaadb

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    awesome looking fish those
     
  20. BBQ

    BBQ

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    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  21. Christo

    Christo

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    @Marco

    Congrats very nice man !!!!! Nice looking colour for fish.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016

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