Popeye

Hi one of my Discus has what looks like popeye, i have two questions, the first is where do I find broad-based antibiotics? I read this on a number of forums.

Second question is I did a 45 to 50% water change as soon as I discovered the problem.

If anyone has any other advice, I am all ears? Thanks and a great forum

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Did you find any answers regarding the popeye?

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Thanks, i ended up putting my discus down as it was not getting better as it was suffering.

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Shame thats what i use to do in the past just thought after 30 years there would be something yet.

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Popeye is a bugger.....
Unfortunately although you read that antibiotics can cure it, I think the success rate is very small.. thats in my experience..
Maybe because by the time you notice it, its too far advanced already?
I dont know... Its one of the things that still bugs me

In the last 2 years I lost an Oscar and a Severum to popeye for no reason
My water parameters were perfect and all the fish in that tank are still fine...

 

Thanks all for the input

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Don't take this the wrong way please but popeye is caused by bad water quality and/or poor diet. Its not a disease but rather a symptom of a weak immune system. I cured popeye in one of my discus when I first got them. I didn't know any better back then and kept them in a planted tank. It took about 3 months and I had a skin disease and popeye to contend with.

Cured both by setting up a bare bottom and moving them asap. 2 weeks later and they where cured and I have never had issues again. Most people gives me flack and tells me that you don't need to do so many water changes like I do and that I'm crazy for doing it but I disagree. If you could get away with a 30%-50% once a week you would see more habitats where fish live in 1.2mx600x600 pools with a little rain once a week.

The water test may come back fine but there are things in there that you can't see and test for especially the microbial count in the water. 90% of the fish we keep live in slow moving rivers with daily rain. In the dry season most of them die or move to the main river. I wish people would just give it a go and see the results.

On discus I recommend 40%-50% daily. The guys with 2000L tanks will tell me its not necessary because that volume of water takes longer to go off. That is true and impractical to change a ton of water a day. I would use a drip system to compensate with that volume of water though. Also crap gets sucked out daily so they add fresh water daily anyway to top up so the fish does get clean water everyday anyway even if its just a little.

On less sensitive fish I do 50%-70% twice a week. 50% once a week doesn't cut it in the long run as you sit with a slow buildup.

I'm speaking out of experience, I tried the once a week approach and ran into trouble, it doesn't work in the long run. Your filter doesn't clean the water, it can be the size of a swimming pool, in the end it is just a chemical convertor. "New" fresh water is the only way to be 99% sure you are giving them a clean environment to thrive.

 

No never thats why the forum is here to say what is on your mind.

Back to topic. All his mollies are in individual pairing tanks. Bare with a few monkeytails floating and sponge filters.

I agree with you 200%. Water quality is your biggest factor to popeye with bacteria infecting the fish. However Water quality and feeding is not the issue i automate his water changes to every 2nd day 30%. Feeding is mainly live or frozen foods.

How ever i think i might have found the thorn in the bush .

After the removal of the male i placed the female in a seperate quarintine tank cleaned the pairing tank and have found that the female is fairly aggressive to the other fish next door in the other tank. Desided to take onther male and droped him in with her and found within 20 min or so se started attacking him and always goes for the eyes.

Since none of the other pairing tanks are infected. I think i might have a very disturbed fish on my hands.

The molly with popeye was placed in a tank and treated with very light dose of condish crystals. Eye seems alot better and looks to be on the mend will keep you posted.

But i do agree water and feeding does have a contribution to popeye.

Thanks for all the input.


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I could not agree MORE with @BoelderBeestie - WELL SAID !!. You cannot get rid of bacteria, virus's and other nasty microbial organisims and especially pathogens, by simply passing the water through a filter. Water changes are the only way to remove the build up of these nasties in the water. You cannot expect healthy fish to live in a 'sewer' .
In fact, the first thing any aquarist or beginner should learn or be told about are water changes. We are in control of our captive fish's environment, unlike in their natural habitat where the river or the body of water is ever changing, and along with it, the pathogens and microbes are more diluted, and the fish are healthier for it.
There is no excuse for doing less water changes, simply look at it as one of the costs of keeping healthy fish along with the cost of food and electricity.

 

I have a mental discus on my hands haha, know the feeling. I couldn't separate a pair because of him and yes he goes for the eyes as well.

There is an excellent documentary on our fish in the wild by Ivan Mikolji. It's a must watch.

 

How to get rid of bacteria and microbes. Don't dechlorinate your aging barrel, only the tank.

 

Yip I fully support multiple WC per week.

 

Ok... here goes a spanner in the works again...

I agree 300% with what has been said regarding maintenance ad water changes etc...but, if we tackling this subject then lets be fair and not only point fingers at water quality, guys with big tanks etc
Please note, no offence was taken on what has been said, I just feel that all angles must then be covered in all fairness

I for one dont have one, we have three massive tanks.. biggest 3500l
If you spend that kind of investement on what the tank and setting up costs.. you dont try and save on water changes
We do 70% and 30% weekly, the tanks are on drip systems, have huge sumps, 2c2400 filters and huge internal filters built into tank

Popeye is not only caused by bad water qaulity, there are several things that can cause popeye. in fact, popeye caused by bad water quality usually affects both eyes and often more than one fish
Your water parameters should not test as perfect

Quotes:
Pop eye (Exophthalmia) is a condition or symptom of an underlying infection in eyes rather than a specific disease, and it can be the result of a number of different causes. The eye bulges out in this manner because of fluid build up, either behind the eye or in the eye itself. The first signs of such infection is either one or even both eyes will start to bulge. Slowly with time it can bulge to such an extent that the fish will look really shocking. The bulging eye may have a thin layer of 'skin' around it, this is a tough tissue that covers the eye keeping it in the socket and as the eye bulges it stretches the 'skin' with it. The fish may also get less active and show no interest in food. Fungus infections can show up afterwards.

If this disease is not detected soon after it is caught the fish can lose one or both of its eyes and its eye sight. You can never be 100% sure the root cause of pop eye, however the most common cause of the pop eye are:

• Internal/external injury
• Bad water parameter/ quality (High nitrates/nitrites/ammonia)
• Internal bacterial infections by Exophthalmus and Corneybacteriosis,
• Water contamination (metal or plastic poisoning)
• Unsuitable salinity

Few other less common causes are
• Vitamin A deficiency, tumors and gas embolism
• Gas Bubble Disease: which is caused by a sudden dramatic change in gas pressure in the aquarium. It's caused by excess oxygen in the water, particularly from filters that blow air directly from outside to inside the tank, and from pressurized tap water that did not get mixed. This can also happen by changing too much water at one time or by adding cold water to the fish tank. Gas bubbles form in the fins and skin of the fish. The bubbles look like blisters and are very easy to see.
Pop eye is easy to identify since it causes they eye to swell up and protrude from its eye socket. The eye will also often become clouded. It is possible to guess the cause of the pop eye based on the symptoms.

1. If only one eye is infected, it is usually caused by an injury (due to fighting with other tank mates or accidental injury during tank maintenance or transportation)

2. Pop eye caused by bacterial infection or environmental issues usually affects both eyes.

3. If pop eye on both eyes is followed by a fungal infection, it is usually bacterial pop eye. It is common for a fish suffering from bacterial pop eye to become infected by fungi due to its weakened state.

4. If pop eye on both eyes is not followed by a fungal infection, the pop eye is usually caused by environmental issues.
Bacterial infections, injury and water quality are the most common problems. Vitamin A deficiency, tumors and gas embolism are less common reasons. Pop eye can also be caused by gas bubble disease as a result of oxygen super saturation (excess levels) of the water with the gas, nitrogen. Super saturation occurs whenever the pressure of a gas in the water is higher than the pressure of the same gas in the surrounding atmosphere, whereby the difference in gas pressures causes the gas to get pulled too quickly out of the fish's bloodstream, leaving behind gas bubbles. The other symptoms of this are the appearance of bubbles under the fish's skin. It's caused by excess oxygen in the water, particularly from filters that blow air directly from outside to inside the tank, and from pressurized tap water that did not get mixed.
Often, popeye stems from an injury to the eye. Bacterial infections may also be responsible, and often occur secondary to an injury. Poor water quality may also cause popeye, however, it seems that if poor water quality is to blame that you would see more fish in the same tank with this problem. Popeye can also be caused by ichthyosporidium, excess blood gases caused by nitrogen supersaturation (what divers get when they come up to the surface too quickly), eye parasites, fungal infections, viruses, and from a hormonal imbalance in the fish. If it is caused by excess blood gases you'll typically see gas bubbles in the eye and other fish may be having problems as well. Excess copper in the aquarium has been known to cause popeye in saltwater fish, but it is unknown if copper causes popeye in freshwater fish.



As a matter of interest in both instances where over a two year period I lost an Oscar and Severum to "popeye"
The 2 oscars were not a pair and didnt see eye to eye and were permanently bulliying each other
They didnt cause major damage so I hadnt seperated them, today i regret that i didnt

My severum, there were 7 severums and 2 had paired up
There was a fight for dominancy going on and chasing but again no serious injuries so I left them again... maybe I should have seperated them sooner

In both instances my parameters were perfect, water changes twice a week etc, etc... no other fish ever affected

So conclusion.. yes... water parameters and tank maintenance is a big contributor to any problem including popeye but there are other factors that can cause it to happen

 

I wouldn't count an eye injury as popeye, my oscars had many from being to ruff and it heals within a few days, all the other reasons boils down to water quality and diet. Your water might be fine but what about the substrate, horrible things hide in substrate. The fish just needs to stir it up a bit and there's all sorts of evil in the water column.

 

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for all the comments, i am learning a lot from all your experiences.

Something no one has mentioned is the quality of fish from the pet shop's?

It is great to be on this forum.

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I think that if you decide to keep fish it is then important to find a fish store that has some knowledge about the species they keep. Trust between the shop and the vlient is important thus get to know the people.

This will then allow you the find out if the species you are interested in is local or imported. You would also feel more at home asking questions on their health. You are more likely to get the truth and can then make a more informed choice.

Regardless of the above i strongly believe that any fish bought from anyone should go into a quarintine tank till you are sure and happy that all is ok.

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I have a number of fairly large tanks. Over the last few years I can recall pop-eye on 4 occasions, all were once-off events in different tanks, I euthanised 2 of the fishes, and the other two survived with perfect eyes, my last incident was about two months ago.
I do water changes very alternate day on all my tanks and use probiotics weekly. In all instances the fishes were in their tanks for months, if not years, so no "contamination" from outside, nor did they "infect" any other fish in the tank.
Poor water conditions will give rise to numerous problems, including pop-eye, but equally pop-eye will happen in "pristine" tanks.
My 2c worth....

 

@Jwh, glad you also agree with me....
Both the fish I lost, i know for a fact it was not water quality related
What I found very interesting was the theory of excess oxygen in the water and if anything i could blame myself for, that is the one thing
Due to the very high temperatures we reach in this area which are same as Pretoria and sometimes higher, i have a lot of oxygen going into the tank and that made me think a little..

 

@Jwh, glad you also agree with me....
Both the fish I lost, i know for a fact it was not water quality related
What I found very interesting was the theory of excess oxygen in the water and if anything i could blame myself for, that is the one thing
Due to the very high temperatures we reach in this area which are same as Pretoria and sometimes higher, i have a lot of oxygen going into the tank and that made me think a little..