Pet store questions regarding the blacklist.

Heyo guys. I went to the pet store today in magic gardens and they said that the backlist in invasives.org.za is not the true blacklist and told me that they were visited by "Wildlife" (who ever that is) who told them that ALL shrimp are illegal to sell. So exactly, who is this "wildlife" that apparently updates the blacklist "Daily" (as the pet store told me)? What blacklist is it? Or ... is that just some local fish store false story as usual? Kinda like how they say bettas can live in like a liter of water... and how they say neon tetras are lab-bred fish... in other words, is it just a crap story?

Any comment? I'm eager to hear your opinions on what the store said and thanks for any advice.

If I offended anyone, which I don't think can be possible with this post, I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm just frustrated with the false information people keep giving.

 

They are probably referring to the NEMBA list.
The latest one I can find is dated July 2016, and according to what I can see, Neocardina and Cardina are not on the list.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q5vd2rk46wp0g/NEMBA Invasive Species Lists @ 29 July 2016.pdf?dl=0

 

Who is this so called "Wildlife" that visited the LFS? I smell a scam that they fell for.

 

Trust me, you missed they really exciting days here at TASA back when I first joined. Some people knew more about the infamous 'blacklist' than others, while pretty much everyone else was confused. The one we were all fretting about back then was a list put together back in the 1970's or so - I'm unsure on what regulations it controlled (in terms of permission of ownership, transport, selling, buying etc., which are all very different acts in the eyes of the law), but as a general guideline here at TASA we discouraged people from keeping animals on that list. There were many, many, many freshwater fishes on that list that were familiar to the hobbyist (particularly any fishes that had air-breathing capacity, or were tolerant of slightly cooler waters), as well as some that were pretty baffling. Natives (and many of their close relatives) were prohibited too. Included, as far as I remember, were any freshwater invertebrates.

The 'new' list, NEMBA, the one that you linked to, regulates what animals need to be controlled (including their transporting, owning, buying, selling, etc.). However I'm uncertain if this list effectively replaces the old 1970's list, or it pads it more to ensure more effective control of really dangerously invasive animals.

I have noticed that pet shops around the country have begun selling more and more shrimp ever since NEMBA (even in it's younger, draft versions) started doing the rounds. The old regulation was hardly enforced as it was. This newer one with fewer species on it seems to be the one everyone is paying attention to.

So are shrimp legal? In my opinion, people aren't as worried about it anymore. Maybe this 'Wildlife' are misinformed, or maybe everyone else is, since the old lists may still be in effect.

I'd suggest trying to talk to an authority, but I'm near certain you'll get different answers depending on who you talk to.

Regards,

 

The "wildlife" they are probably referring to, would be the old Departments of Wildlife, which are basically the same as Departments of Nature Conservation in the various provinces.
Over and above the National Environmental Management Biodiversity Act (NEMBA) there are still various Provincial Acts regulating species, which differ in each province.

 

But petshops are still being told they are not allowed to import any shrimp. And some are even told they may not sell them.

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

Print all 74 pages of the NEMBA list, and ask the LFS salesmen to find the word shrimp in the document.
It occurs twice, with both references being for the White Shrimp / White Leg Shrimp (Litopenaeus vannamei) which is a marine invertebrate.
Nowhere does it say Cardina or Neocardina.

 

these are some of the best responses I've gotten on this site, EVER, this is SUPER helpful!

So there is no need to worry about selling the shrimps then, right? I emailed Invasives and Kay (I think it was her name) messaged me back with that same 2016 29jul list. she said it was fine to keep them if it was not on the list. I guess you guys are right, just some misinformation being spread to the stores?

here comes the fun part though... If I ever sell shrimp and people came to me claiming it was illegal, what do I do to protect myself and my shrimp? I'll show them the nemba list, of course, but what else can I do? what can any of us do to defend ourselves and our shrimps?

This hobby is a really close hobby to me, I would HATE for it to just be bulldozed, lol.

Thank you guys so much for the help so far

 

Get good legal advice, don't point them to TASA ... seriously by the time you have people knocking on your door you are already in trouble.

 

Ah, I see. and legal advice: how do I get that?

Edit: Or rather, how do i not let myself get into such a situation? if I even can. Shrimpcity in Pretoria is a full on business with shrimp and they're fine...

 

Hard to say, some people just naturally get them selves into a situation that others seem to avoid with common sense. Dwelling on a topic ( pop psychology - visualising, affirmation and keeping things top of mind ) seems to play some part. One of the biggest observations in life for me was not to judge my behaviour against that of others but rather against what I understand to be correct and proper. The world is full of good examples of bad behaviour being rewarded and good behaviour going unseen - but such is life.

Later Ferdie

 

So basically I should just use common sense? it makes sense... ( )

 

true that !!!

 

So... as an example to be sure... what if I sell shrimp and someone tells me to stop because its "Illegal" what do I do then when I know it is completely legal?

Sorry, I'm dragging it on, but I prefer drilling things into my head over and over and over.... just to be sure. better safe than sorry.

 

Think you are missing the point, if you are spending so much time convincing yourself that it is legal, but actually you not 110% sure or you are overly concerned of what others think then maybe you should not be doing it.

I linked to a definition of common sense intentionally "Common sense is a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge things that are shared by ("common to") nearly all people and can reasonably be expected of nearly all people without need for debate."

Later Ferdie

 

true, and I understand, you have a very good point. I wont do it soon though, haha, its just when I eventually do it when my shrimps start getting too much for the tank.

I probably shouldnt be so concerned about it.

 

You won't have a problem with your shrimps getting too much for your tank.
If you feel there are too many, you will simply set up another tank, and transfer the excess to the new tank...
Another form of common sense.

Seriously though, I started with 10 low quality RCS, added 20 better quality a few months later, and was super excited when I noticed the first berried female.
I have sold a few shrimp, with the last sale being for 200 shrimp, and that hardly made a dent in their population.
Two months down the line, and there are as many as there always have been.

 

The wildlife referred to is the good old DWAF. Dept of Wildlife and Fisheries.

 

Ah, I see. so where is the DWAF blacklist that says shrimp are illegal to sell? I've never heard of DWAF before at all, Only DAFF.

Edit: Tried to finding DWAF, couldn't find anything. could you please point me towards a site to let me know what I need to know (Like is it ok to sell shrimp or example)

 

or feed them to predatory fish... They usually keep the numbers in control