Palmfiber Peat soaked in Chemicult as a substrate.

Hi Dirk.
Can you please share your thoughts on using Palmfiber peat soaked in Chemicult as a substrate for planted tanks?
TIA

 

Please bear in mind that it is not a substrate... It is a layer beneath your gravel. You cannot use it as a substrate just like that. It must be capped.

 

Yes, I do understand that you need to cap it with sand, gravel, etc. Not quite sure of what the correct term is.

 

Until Prof Dirk has time to answer, let me say that I know he uses this method and it works well. Palm fibre peat bricks are in fact not peat at all. But you put it in a bucket with water and it expands. Then you add chemicult. I am not sure how much you should add. I would look for the one with N and P. There are about 5 different chemicult products. The nutrients are then absorbed and you can place this as a bottom layer and cap it with inert silica sand.

I don't see why people would want to use products like Flourite or DIY clay balls. It only adds Fe which can be done so much cheaper and easier through the water column or by inserting some steel nails under the roots of heavy root feeders. What you really want in your substrate is N, P and K so that the roots can feed on those nutrients if your water column dosing is not up to scratch.

ADA Aquasoil is the only commercial product I know that contains N and P, but because you don't cap it, it also leaches into the water. But people get extremely good results with Aquasoil. You also can't add fish for the first month when you have Aquasoil and it also lowers the kh quite a bit. Those are the trade-offs. The above method is probably the closest you are going to get to Aquasoil quality as a substrate and probably has less negative points. But I would suggest you plan the layout properly because you don't want to be uprooting and replanting too many times with that kind of layer underneath.

 

Hi Guys,

It is good to see that before I even get to answering, others have commented, it is clearly a topic that is interesting. Thanks also Lauré, for your perfectly correct comments.

The Chemicult that I would recommend for the addition to the palm fibre peat, is the one for hydroponics. I would recommend one heaped teaspoon per five litres, which is the amount that you should use for one palm fibre peat brick. The reason why I recommend this type of chemicult is because it has a ratio of N:K of 3:1:5 and trace elements. One must remember that in normal garden fertilizers a significant proportion of the N is in ammonia form which is toxic for fishes. In the hydroponic mix this would also cause problems if this was too high so it is purposely lower and is therefore more suited for aquariums. I would for example not recommend the use of the chemicult for orchid feeding in spring the 30:10:10 mix as this contains far too much N and by implication ammonia and no trace elements. What I do want to emphasize immediately, is that Chemicult as an additive to the water of an aquarium for plant feeding cannot be recommended because of the ammonia, it will kill your fishes as you will get an ammonia spike. If it is added to the medium, it will largely remain there and can be used by the plants, but it will not leach into the water quickly and cause the problems of ammonia toxicity. THis is very important and ANYONE THAT USES CHEMICULT FOR AQUATIC PLANT FEEDING WILL BE DOING SO AT THEIR OWN RISK, I AM STRONGLY AGAINST USING IT, and will not take any responsibility for fish losses if anyone does use it.

I would also like to explain that there have been reports in local forums of persons using "rose compost" as an additive to their substrates. These persons also capped this compost, but then complained about algal growth and smells. I also experimented with garden composts and rose composts. What I find very worrying about "rose compost" or any other nursery compost is that there is no consistency in the use of what goes into these composts, some have chicken manure added, others contain pine park, and so it carries on. In my opinion, this is a ticket for disaster, chicken manure is rich in ammonia and has high levels of bacteria and bark contains high levels of unsuitable and plant unfriendly tannins. I felt that I wanted to use a medium that was going to be constant and that I could recommend to someone elsewhere where he could buy it off the shelf and have the same thing. Palm fibre peat is such a product. It is compacted coconut husk that has been ground to particle sizes of about 3-5 mm. Chemically is contains cellulose and lignin (lignin is the most important component of wood) and is chemically INACTIVE, which is very important. It will also only decompose very slowly (I am talking in terms of years) and will not release all sorts of undefined nasties with time. I have used this medium extensively for my above water potted plants with excellent results for many years. Then I have also experimented with it in aquaria and it works brilliantly. What is particularly heartening is that the root development in this medium is excellent. I have tried composts and they go anaerobic (blocked without oxygen) because the decomposition uses up all the oxygen and these media stink when you dismantle the aquarium. In contrast, palm fibre peat stays perfectly in shape and does not rot and hence the roots are fine and there is strong root growth, indicating healthy plants. Then I want to add that plants that require feeding from the medium such as crypts and many other plants such a Limnophila aromatica, various Rotalas which are chronically difficult plant to grow, thrive in this medium if you use my aquatic ferts added to the water in combination with the palm fibre peat.

Finally, I think that the cost of this medium is affordable to all and does not have these overinflated prices of the substrates as we see them offered in the shops. The reason why the price of these substrates is so expensive is largely as a result of the transport. Palm fibre peat is light and compact. Just for interest sake it is made in Sri Lanka.

Hope this advice will help you understand why I am using it and why others are starting as well now.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Thank you for all the very informative replies.
If I wanted to used this method, could you please document the process involved, as well as the quantities that should be used?
I am about to start my first planted tank and would like to start out right.
TIA

 

Also, how would the result of using this method compare to for instance using a mineralised soil (I do have a link to another forum that explains how to do it and what to add, but not sure if I am allowed to post it here)?

 

Hi Darryn,

I have just used this process, but have not yet planted anything in it, but heres what to do...

Get a 10L minimum bucket...
Fill with about 5 L of water....
Add One Large-ish tablespoon of Chemicult (Bag not Margarine jars) and stir...
Add Palm Fibre Block to water...
Leave 24hours for water to absorb into fibre brick....
Break up any clumps, and add maybe 2 cm layer to bottom of EMPTY tank! No water! This stuff floats!
Top off with Pool Filter Sand, to at least 2cm depth, and fill carefully with water!

I find that placing a plate at the bottom of the tank on the sand keeps all the sand from being washed off the top of the fibre! Just pour the water straight onto plate!

Can't advise on the planting part yet, as I'm not upto that stage, but just try to avoid uprooting once planted!

Cheers!
Big G!

Oh, the reason for the 10L bucket is that this stuff expands! HuGely! From one brick and 5L of water you are supposed to get 9L of Fibre! I don't think I had that much, but it still expanded! A LOT!

Compared to mineralised Soil, I cannot comment, but I would be careful adding anything that may contain dodgy chemicals or ingredients that you don't know the source of, or may vary between bag to bag!

At least with the Palm Fibre, you know its the same everytime!

Cheers
Big G!

 

Hi Darryn,

Big G has explained perfectly how you need to do this, I cannot improve on this.

I cannot give you an indication of how this compares with mineralised earth, because I have not made a direct comparison between the methods. When I have started reading about this, I have not really seen why this could be beneficial. I also have a problem with this approach because once again, we are not starting off with the same starting material. In making mineralised earth one also does not add many nutritional components other than perhaps some iron, but certainly not the spectrum of nutrients that we are adding to the palm fibre peat.

Although this is not a convincing scientific argument or evidence, I have decided against this method.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

So the correct things to ask for at the nursery are: Palm Fibre Peat and Chemicult Hydroponic Nutrient Powder?

@Gareth: Thanks for the info. From your reply, is seems that your can buy the Chemicult in bags and tubs? So just one block to 5L water? Base on that, what size tank did you put it in? Did you have to add more than one block or was one block (more than) enough?
TIA

@Dirk: Thanks once again. So you would recommend just using this method and then dosing with liquid ferts? Is there anything else that I can add to the Palm Fibre Peat that would be beneficial for plant growth/quality?
I see in your explanation, you say use 1 heaped teaspoon and Big G. says 1 large-ish table spoon?
TIA

 

Is this the correct Chemicult to use?


Image courtesy of another forum member. I hope that this is ok?

 

OK Darryn,

The brand name under which palm fibre peat is sold is Kompel, the Chemicult comes in a hard, see through pale blue plastic bag with writing on it. I have just seen the pic of the container that you have posted and the name is the same so I think this may just be a different packaging, but still the same stuff.

The exact amount is decided by your tank, you should put a layer of about 2 cm into the tank and then cover it with 2 cm of inert gravel. As it is quite light, I would recommend that you press it down firmly with your hand before capping with the gravel, see pic.

Gareth was a little enthusiatic and recommended a heaped tablespoon, I would add a little less, hence my heaped teaspoon advice. Other than that you can add some normal iron nails as Lauré had indicated (see pic).

And then I would recommend that you use my fertilizers, not just any brand because those I developed worked in the soft water of the Western Cape, others do not work.

I have added some not so fantastic pics to illustrate this.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

i guess that the tub version - says exactly the same as whats on teh blue bag in front of me

 

Hi Henk,

I think this must be the same stuff because the name is the same.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

yup yup

 

Thanks Dirk.
Sorry for all the questions. I just don't want to stuff his up. You know what a pain it would be if I had to replace the substrate in a running tank.
Your guys help has been great. I am definitely going to be going this route with the new tank I am setting up. Much better than waiting 5 weeks just to mineralise soil. LOL
Would I just put the nails loose on top of the palm fibre peat, or do i need to bury them?
What sort of 'coverage' do you get once the peat is wet? What size tank would a block cover? Not quite sure how much I should purchase.
When you take the peat out of the water, should you get rid of excess water? The reason I am asking is from the pics it seems that it is quite dry.
Once again sorry for all the question.
Thanks to you as well Henk.

 

OK Darryn,

We will get this right.......

Stick the nails into the palm fibre peat, and distribute them evenly over the tank. About 20 of these for a tank of which the base is 60 x 30 cm so not too many. The plants actually send their roots in the direction of the nails, I almost get the feeling.

I think one block (which is BTW the size of a paving brick when compact) would easily cover a tank that has a base of 1.2 m x 45 cm.

If you use 5 litres of water and then add the brick it draws up all of the water and the peat has a moist but not wet consistency as shown in my pics. Nothing needs to be poured off, all the water is drawn into the peat. But be careful, use a graduated jug to get the right volume. If you want to you can use really hot water in which the Chemicult dissolves more easily and the brick will also draw up the fluid quicker. However, you must leave the palm fibre brick in the solution overnight for it to draw up the fluid completely.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

No No! I don't know if it is the same?? There are several different tubs, which are intended for different types of plants!

I would ONLY get the blue bag if you can?? They had a load of it at Builders in Brooklyn half price last week (after I bought mine full price!)! Check there first, But I wouldn't chance the tubs incase they are slightly different levels!? Best be safe than sorry!

As for coverage, one brick should give you at least 1cm depth on a 90cm to 1.2m tank! You really don't need a lot of depth, in fact it doesn't even need to cover the whiole tank, just the areas you want to plant!

I used half a brick on one of my 48cm x 42cm tanks, and that gave me about 2-2,5cms depth! More than Plenty!!

Cheers
Big G!

 

Great. Thanks to everyone for their input.
It all just seems TOO simple. LOL
After reading all the complicated setups some people have prescribed, this is a walk in the park.
Can't wait to get started ..

 

Hi Darryn, and everyone else on this thread,

It is my philosophy to keep it simple and try to keep it cheap so that the hobby is affordable for more people.

I also am of the opinion, and I say this on the basis of my professional background, that many of the fancy and complicated setups really do not have much scientific evidence supporting them, and are then made out to be the holy grail (the DWs and the TBs....).

So, go for it, and keep us posted with regard to progress.

Kind regards,

Dirk