New Discus tank - can someone please help!

Hi, I'm new to this website, I have been searching the net for help on raising the PH in my Discus tank water. This problem has been on-going for 3 weeks now. I'm in Tble View Cape Town, my tank bought new, is a 266L Boyu tank, it came with a Boyu submersible pump with attachment which runs along the top, 2 insets with pellets, covered by white spongy type stuff and the tube with holes runs along the top of it (i don't know the term for this). I also have a Dolphin F-2000 internal filter. My gravel is fine river gravel, two ornaments (plane and ship), two aerating stones, a large fake piece of driftwood ornament (all bought from same shop). My tap water PH is 8. A quick history: The tank is 6 weeks old, I had 5 discus (small), 4 angel fish, 3 bronze cory, 1 albino cory, 6 bristle sucker fish (very small), 10 black neons, 4 clown loaches. After two weeks 1 bronze cory and 2 sucker fish died. The shop I purchased all from (cost me in total around R8500), advised me on these purchases. I have had tanks before for about 3 years bought from the same shop, but with sailfin mollies, sword tails, black ghost, guppies etc. This was my first foray into the Discus world. Having read that I need to change the water weekly, I asked the shop and was told rubbish as our South African water is fine, a monthly change would be all that would be necessary. All fish were added separately over a period of 12 weeks, testing the water before adding fish. After the two weeks the last test showed a PH of 8, the shop sold me Discus Buffer starting at 3 level tsp going up a teaspoon every second day testing the water each day. Every afternoon the PH was 7.5 every morning PH8 sometimes 8.3 eventually I was up to 6 level tsp, the same thing. They then sold me PH up, I did that for 2 days the same thing, it went down after adding the next day up again. I was at my wits end, as the Discus were now hiding from me when they used to follow me, also they were changing colour becoming a little grey. They suggested bringing the fish back to them for safety sake, which I did, they now reside in one of their tanks for the past 2 days and have got all their colour back. I am now trying to get my tank right before picking them up again. I use the Tetra PH test and they test with the same so my test kit is fine. I have now put Microbe-lift in which says it will set the PH at 6.5. I put 6 scoops in this morning, tested an hour later it was 7.5, they said put double the dose in and test again, I put in 14 scoops (luckily no fish in the tank) and tested 4 hours later it is now 7. I am concerned that I'm not going to get it right and that tomorrow it will be 8 again. Am I doing something wrong?? I don't want to have to give up keeping Discus and go back to the normal tropical fish. By the way the NO2 levels are perfect. Please help!

 

sorry all fish added over a period of 2 weeks...

 

First things first, normal fish tanks require a weekly water change nver mind a discus tank. Never listen to the advice from that shop again, please. Chances are that the discus you are getting from these amateurs are already diseased and will be s struggle to keep alive from the start, if it was me I would get my money back, do propper research and start from scratch

 

thank you for the reply, the thing is I have known them for around 3- 4 years (they have been around much longer) and they have a good reputation, my previous tanks and fish were from them which I had for three years, but moving house, building and renovating and getting three large dog pups didn't give much time, now that all is settled a year later I want to get back into it and would love a discus tank. I can probably get the money back for the fish (I hope), can you suggest where I do some research and if allowed the name of a reputable aquarium place in Cape Town to go to.

 

Hi @Macmish

Welcome to Tasa

Wow, its hard to decide where to start with this. The jump from keeping most tropical fish to Discus can be daunting. The requirements and level of skill needed is vastly different, with discus requiring quite a step up in maintenance and water chemistry, along with quality filtration and a good understanding of their needs.

For starters I will explain to you the basic water needs of discus.
They originate from the Amazon, from waters which in certain areas resemble almost the same qualities of RO or Distilled water.
Of course for Discus it is not needed to try establish exact conditions such as just mentioned in their tank, but you should be keeping those water parameters in mind when keeping them.
Distilled water is water which has been stripped of all dissolved minerals and salts. We refer to this as having a low Total dissolved solids (tds) reading, expressed as ppm (parts per million) Discus should ideally be kept in water with a tds value of between 80 and 150ppm
Its very important to keep this in mind.

Now why did I tell you this - adding ANYTHING such as ph up, discus buffers etc is effectively adding salts and chemicals to the water. This then raises the tds to astronomical levels. From what you have said here, I'd be amazed if the tds in your tank water is below 1500ppm. Now, even if you should get the ph to what you deem an acceptable level, the tds in your tank will make it very uncomfortable for discus, and will result in them slowly deteriorating.

From my understanding Cape tap water is ideal for discus fish. I think we should look inside your tank and establish what is going on thats keeping your ph at such a high level. Most keepers there struggle to keep the ph from crashing to dangerously low levels, so what you are experiencing makes no sense.

Kind regards

Marco

 

OK, I'm not going to tell you to give up. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know the current thinking with discus is not to mess around with the pH, in other words all the Discus buffer, pH Up and things are causing more trouble than they cure. If your Cape Town water is prone to crashing (dropping drastically in pH) when it's left for a while, some shell grit in the filter should help stabilise it. First grab a bucket of water, put some sort of pump in it, and leave it for a few days checking pH every day to see if it crashes or stays stable. If it stays the same, or goes down for a day and THEN stays stable, I'd honestly say forget all the chemicals and just age your water for a day before changes. And yeah, you need to change 50% every day or two if you have babies, or every week for adult discus. They're very fussy that way! As for research, read everything that @Dirk on this forum says. Here's a good thread regarding pH and shell grit. http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/s...-of-pH-fluctuation-and-Discus&highlight=crash Step one: see if your water's pH crashes if you just leave it alone. If not: just leave it alone! Never add water that hasn't been standing for at least a day, and change water A LOT.

 

Hi Marco, thanks for reply - I have fine river gravel, two air stones, two smallish pieces of driftwood, three ornaments - plane, ship & large piece of fake driftwood, all bought from aquarium shop in Cape Town. I have uploaded pic, do u need any more info to help me?

 

hello @Macmish were you from did you say? down under? ha ha ha . post your pictures right way up! getting a head ache standing on my head:biggrin:
sorry did i hear you right all your fish added in two weeks? agree with @ Marco something going on in your tank. also sounds over stocked
also you should have a well established bacteria (cycled tank) people in pet shops are will to sell there customers any thing to make money or to punt out "bad stock" and fish that are not suitable for novice fish keepers. but have no fear there are loads of people here @TASA who have loads of time and experience who will help you get to the bottom of your troubles. all we need is info
cheers doug

 

Thank you all for the replies I really appreciate the help, what info can I give you and should I empty the tank and start all over again? I didn't clean out the filters when I took all fish out, i just did 100% water change, what now? I'm worried about tds level Marco is talking about, after the additions of buffer & microbe lift today, is there a test kit I can buy to test these levels?

 

@Macmish I have read this just now...
I'm available for part of tomorrow.

Maybe you can swing by my place in milnerton, and I can join you at your place later for a decent assessment?
if you are up for it...PM me with all your contact details

it sounds like :
you made an immense effort and at great expense to "Go Discus"
rely on your trusty petshop
are keen on ALL of your pets
..so you DO have the makings of a really fine Discus owner.


:hmmmm: we KNOW so much has happened already , leaving you at wit's end...Don't worry ,it gets better

I'm certain you will have things ticking over after a few significant changes are made.

 

@Altum +1 , one of the most positive posts I have read on Tasa for a while

 

:embarrest:
Aaag no man, it's minor!
I know what it feels like - When we all are helpless one time or another
Other times , I cannot spare a moment

Anyway, it is not so far away, maybe 20min max...

I CAN help, and why shouldn't I! ?
Really, TASA has a host of goodwill

Thanks !

 

Few cents, angels are not good tank mates for Discus because of 2 reasons.
1. They are very fast for discus when it comes to feeding.
2. They are prone to carry gill flukes.

 

Thank you so much to everyone who has replied, I am going to see Altum & take him up on his offer. I am very grateful and humbled by his generosity. The best thing I did re this problem was register on this website yesterday.

 

you wont regret the visit,he helped me on my discus journey,and i never looked back!