Need SOUND advice for tank setup please

Hi there everyone..

I bought a 40Lt tank four days ago which is cycling at the moment with one Black Moor and one plant living in the tank. I have spoken to quite a few salesmen at various pet shops about whether i can put tropical fish in the tank along with the Black Moor. Now, the people I spoke to suggested that I put a small school of 5 Neon Tetra's, a male Betta, and two Cory Cat's in the tank. I'm new to fish keeping but putting two fish with such elaborate fins in such a small tank sounds like a recipe for disaster to me!! The last thing I want is to purchase fish which are going to die/get hurt or that are going to harm the fishy I already have. I would really appreciate it if you guys could please give me some honest advice and guidelines for my tank setup.

Current Temp. - 25.7 degrees (No artificial heating!)
pH - 7.5

Thank You!

 

You are at the right place!
Soon you will be flooded with ideas and advice.
Be ready to answer a few questions.
What do you want to keep? Goldfish or coldwater/tropicals?
In the mean time read Zoom's articles about nitrogen cycle and basic setups...

 

@K.C - welcome to TASA.

Firstly, you would need heating in the tank.

Secondly you need to be careful not to put too much fish in the 40L tank. The main reason being that with smaller tanks, the water gets polluted much quicker.

Your PH seems to be OK, but you need to watch your ammonia levels, especially when the tank setup is new, as the bacteria is not yet existing for the nitrification process (ammonia converted to nitrite and then to nitrate). It’s always good to add biological supplement for new tanks to speed up bacterial growth.

Can you please give some info on your setup (Filter, Filter media type, Light etc).

 

The key question here is this : did the LFS provide you with something to help with the cycle start up or did they tell you to simply add water and then the fish ?

Are you treating the water with a dechlorination chemical - ie Seachem Prime or equivalent ?

What I normally do is I treat the tank water with Prime, then add Seachem Stability as per recommendation. Leave the lights off!!! Make sure your filter system is running.
Add Stability as per directions over the 7 day period. You can add a fish or two or three after the 1st day since the Stability counteracts the ammonia build up that MUST take place. It does this by "forcing" the bacteria to start growing more quickly (which is also why you MUST leave the lights off).

After the 7 day dosing ritual your tank will be safe for fish but remember to add them one at a time, not adding 10 in one go! Remember that your tank is ALWAYS cycling as conditions in the tank change. The more fish you add the more bacteria needs to form to allow for the increase in biological mass.

It can get technical, but hang in there and you will do just fine

 

I think it will be best if I start at the beginning.. :bigsmile:

Before I purchased the 40Lt, I had an existing 12Lt (its minute, I know) which housed the one Black Moor for about a year and a half. So when I set up the bigger tank I took the filter and the plant from the small tank and transferred them directly to the bigger one (without cleaning them). I then filled the new tank with tap water which I treated with Aqua Master A.C.E (Ammonia & Chlorine Eliminator) and ran it fish-less for a day. Thereafter I added the fishy. So he's been in the tank for a total of three days. The filter in use is called 'Aqua One' which has a max flow rate of 350L/h and the filter medium looks to be normal sponge. I have not bought any lights as I do not know what I need. I did buy a heater but its not on at the moment.

Thank you for all the quick replies guys!!

 

Oh I forgot to mention that I bought some coral chips for the bigger tank instead of the colourfull stones they sell at most pet stores and there is an air stone in the tank aswell.

 

Hi KC

The coral chips will harden your water and higher your PH. Its already a little high.

Most of the tropical fish for a 40L tank will be softwater fish.

Plants will also not do to good in it so I would replace it if I were you.

 

@Vis - Thank you for the heads up about the coral chips. I've removed it from the tank and replaced it with flourite black which was thoroughly washed with de-chlorinated water. I did this yesterday and did Ammonia, Nitrite and pH tests today. Results are as follows.

pH - 8.5
Ammonia - 0.08 ppm
Nitrite - 0 - 0.5 ppm (Using Sera test kit which uses colour charts, Colour of the tested water is not the colour of 0ppm and not exactly the colour of 0.5ppm on the chart)

As I understand, the pH greatly affects the levels of ammonia in the water. If this is in fact so, would it be safe for me to gradually chemically decrease the pH while the tank is going through its initial cycle or would it be better if I get a piece of driftwood that would naturally decrease the pH? Also, how much could driftwood decrease the pH if the acid containing tannins in the wood is removed by boiling/soaking the said piece of wood?

 

@Vis - Thank you for the heads up about the coral chips.  I've removed it from the tank and replaced it with flourite black which was thoroughly washed with de-chlorinated water.  I did this yesterday and did Ammonia, Nitrite and pH tests today. Results are as follows.

pH - 8.5
Ammonia - 0.08 ppm
Nitrite - 0 to 0.5 ppm (Using Sera test kit which uses colour charts, Colour of the tested water is not the colour of 0ppm and not exactly the colour of 0.5ppm on the chart)

As I understand, the pH greatly affects the levels of ammonia in the water. If this is in fact so, would it be safe for me to gradually chemically decrease the pH while the tank is going through its initial cycle or would it be better if I get a piece of driftwood that would naturally decrease the pH? Also, how much could driftwood decrease the pH if the acid containing tannins in the wood is removed by boiling/soaking the said piece of wood?

 

Now you can do some proper planting

What is your pH out of the tap?

Messing around with pH is very dangerous and should be avoided if possible.

In most cases the pH will drop a little over a day as the chemicals in them dissipate.

 

I agree

 

Well the pH straight from the tap is between 8.5 and 9. Again the colour of the tested water is between the two colours on the chart. (How I wish I had an electronic pH meter right now!!!) I think I'm stressing too much about this!

Yes the plants look awesome against the black substrate! I added another Amazon Sword plant (Its all the LFS ad to offer) but as I get more experienced at this I will try more expensive and more specialized plants

 

@K.C 8.5 out of the tap dont sound right. @Dirk Bellstedt is this possible, I thought you guys down there had soft water low pH?

K.C did you remove the old water when you added the flourite?

Stick around and you can get more expensive plants free here

 

You might find the tap water pH is high because it's reacting to the metal pipes it travels in, high co2 content, and lowers after it has aged. I recall the professor explaining that often tap water out the tap has a slightly higher pH, but I cant find the post where he explained why.

Then because the water is so soft, i.e low gH and low kH, therefore a low buffering capacity of the water, the pH drops relatively far compared to the same pH of a higher gH and kH.

This is another reason why you should always let your water age for at least 24 hrs before using it.

 

@Vis - I know, I had a shock when i saw the pH of the tap water. I've made some distilled water so once it has cooled I'll rinse the test tubes and re-test. Maybe there are some ions interfering with the reactant of the test kit. Will post the updated results A.S.A.P! As for your question... I siphoned out [SUP]3[/SUP]/[SUB]4 [/SUB]of the water into a bucket, removed the coral along with the [SUP]1[/SUP]/[SUB]4 [/SUB]water left in the tank. Added the flourite, plants, airstone, ect. Then returned the [SUP]3[/SUP]/4 water to the tank and topped up as I would have done with a normal water change. Hope this was the correct way to do it!!

@Zoom - I'm speaking under correction :idea:, but would a high CO[SUB]2 [/SUB]content not decrease the pH due to more Carbonic acid being formed in the water?

 

You probably right K.C. My science extends as far as matric and whilst a lot of aquarium chemistry is easily covered in this, it was a few years ago. All I know is that the pH in tap water is not always the same, and where the gH and kH is low, the difference is greater.

 

Been a few posts bout new tanks and higher pH values... most of us live in larger metropoles that receives treated water from their manucipalities. Due to the practise in the past to plumb house water piping with copper piping,manucipalities treat tap water with temporary buffers to increase the pH of it to prevent corosion of the copper piping...

These calcium/carbonate compounds will react/break down over time - this is all dependant on the amount of TDS,the hardness of the water and a couple of other factors...

Dont fiddle with your pH - you will do more harm than good - anyways,most fish we keep in the hobby are farm raised and have been so for many generations - they can handle pH values that are not the same as their natural rather well - much better than wild pH swings due to us fiddling with chemicals....

 

I'm happy to say that the pH in my tank has come down slightly since yesterday (without me playing Mr mad water scientist:amuse and all the other parameters are looking good so far with Ammonia clocking in at 0.009 ppm and Nitrite readings at 0.5 ppm. Will do daily checks for spikes and pH consistency.

Thank you very much to everyone for the good advice, it really is much appreciated!!

 

@K.C - do a water change mate... Nitrates of 0.5ppm is highly stressfull to fish...

 

I think a water change will also lower your pH more as you get rid of the water that you had with the coral chips.