Mysterious Angel deaths

Hello Dirk

Got as bit of a strange one here.

Over the last 2 weeks, I have lost 3 Angels on different occasions.

They dont show any sign iof illness. They eat and are not quiet in a corner somewhere.

I would come home or wake up in the morning to find them dead. It always looked like a struggle, based on the condition of the fish and surrounds, so I wrote it off to territorial feuds, although I was not convinced.

Late last week I lost a full black Angel, yet it was the colour of a silver dollar when I found it with just the tips of the fins showing black.

Tonight I saw what happens in the last 10 or so minutes of the Angels Demise.

I have a Koi Angel.

He went quiet very quickly
lay on the ground for literally a few minutes.
Then started swimming as frantically back and forth, I have never seen any of my fish swim so fast. Finally diving into the ground still swimming, digging himself a hole then across again to the otherside of the tank where he swam sideways in a circle for about 15 seconds then fell to the ground and expired.


It could have literally come out of a Hollywood action movie where the star got 50cc of Andrenalin and went bezerk and then died of it.

The tetras, corys and plecs so no signs of illness neither.

Any Ideas

 

Have still more lectures to prepare for tomorrow.....

What is the pH of this tank, I do not mean measured with some inaccurate kit or pH meter, but with a lab style pH meter.

I would like to know if the pH is far lower than what you think.

Then I need to know how many fishes are in this system and where they come from, I mean angels now.

Have a hectic day tomorrow and do not know when I will be able to answer.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hello Dirk

There are 6 Angels (originally 9 ) in a 1.2m

as for PH, I will measure tomorrow, but based on my super happy rummy noses and cardinals, and my uphappyish Vallis, I can only surmise around the 5 mark.

 

I think the pH will be closer to 4 if not lower which angels will die from but not cardinals or rummy nose.....

Please keep a water sample so that we could measure it whenever on my pH meter. I would advise the addition of bicarb. If you feed angels well, which I assume you have, then the pH drop caused by the ammonia production is frightening in our non-carbonate hardness water in the Cape. You should then add some shells to your filter, which will not even cause a rise in pH but just stabilize it. This is an old Cape problem, I have to add bicarb to my discus system on a daily basis or else I am in trouble.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Lost another little bugger after the WC

How much Bicarb per 100l do yo dose Dirk?

 

You must add bicarb according to your pH which means you need accurate pH measurement in your tank whilst you do this. Without this you have no control over how high the pH will go although bicarb has a natural buffering step at around 8.3 and will not easily go above this. Without pH measurement you would be guessing entirely. Also after correcting the pH you will find that it will drop rapidly again. I would advise that you add shells, about two tablespoons full, into your filter as this will at least stop the pH from dropping further.

At some stage you will have to bring me a water sample so that I can check accurately what you are dealing with here, but I am still convinced that you have pH problems.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Prof Dirk

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I must say the 8 angels I bought from you are doing extremely well. I also have the issue of constant ph drop, but I try and do a minimum 50% WC weekly and this does help a bit. Sometimes I do up to 80%, but with PE's water restrictions I have to be careful now. In my 5ft I only have the 8 angels right now. I have learned that as soon as the ph drop too low for their liking, they don't want to eat. Then as soon as they don't eat like pigs (which they normally do!), I check my ph and it is sitting at around 5.5 or lower, and then I do a water change and after that they are happy again. Also at that ph they tend to just hang around and don't look too active. But after the WC they start their usual fighting as all 8 have now paired off. I will wait another few months for them to mature nicely and I will select the best looking pair. I have a nice extra deep 4ft and will try and breed the best pair in that tank.

But my comments are also ph related and I am able to tell that the ph is not what it should be by just observing the behaviour of the angels.

And while we are on the subject, I am looking for colourful schooling fish as tank mates for them. But not rummys or cardinals. They just don't seem hardy enough. Perhaps it would help if I tell you my kh = 1.7 and I try to keep the ph in the 5.8 to 6.4 range. Even an 80% WC does not raise the ph any higher than 6.4. I do not really want to mess with the kh too much, as this then becomes a complicated management issue.

Regards
Lauré

 

Hi Lauré,

I understand your comments about the bicarb, but I would still suggest that you add some because this is the only realistic way to raise the pH and you will only marginally increase you KH if you add bicarb if your pH is so low.

For tank mates for angels, I could suggest that you get some Rosy Tetras, these fishes are so beautiful yet so underestimated. Once they get a little larger and the males develop their fins extensions and then shimmer at each other, they are really stunning. Another possibilty are Diamond Tetras, Moenkhauseri pitteri, which with their steely gray and white fin margins are also very pretty and hardy.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Silver Tips, glass bloodfins?

 

I am not sure if silver tips will not do some fin nipping, and do you think that glass bloodfins would be robust enough. I like both of these fishes, but I am just not quite sure about them.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

The bloodfins in my tank with the angels are fine