help with filtration

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by guillaume, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. guillaume

    guillaume

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    hey guy im looking for some advice i build this system my self and i want to know wat you think .

    oky i recently lost an oscar and i took the hit hard finaly got an new yesterday.

    i had 2 small fish in the tank to keep the system cycled one guppy and a fiter fish.

    it is a wet dry system and the pump is running at 1400 . tank is about 1.2 by 70*70 and sump 100l



    this is the prefilter and then some sponges


    then my filter media witch is plastic pot scrubbers



    then i got ceramic rings in botom shelf

    2 300 wat heaters in sump and a 200 wat heater in tank

    i empty most of the water out of the sump once a day and fill it up with new water from our well keeping all the equipment under water
     
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  3. Tetra

    Tetra

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    Hi guillume

    little hard to puzzle out exactly your cycle of the filter but my sump setup I've got filter wool on top with ceramic rings at the bottom and seems to be working.

    ive never seen people makes use of plastic pot scrubbers in a sump filter but there's always a first time.

    I've got 2x 300 watt heaters in my sump filter and my tank is 590 liter and I've succeed to get my water temp to 30 for the Discus fish I had so maybe you can think to take out the 200 watt in your tank.

    Watch out to put a guppy with a oscar he will become dinner sometime.

    Guys please back me on this one but ,water changes out of your sump, just make sure that your filter media doesn't run dry for the bacteria dies off when your media isn't under water. I don't see the reason to do a WC change everyday if you only have two fish in your tank. You need to grow bacteria in your sump before it will start to work so cut down on your water change.

    I'm breaking the rules around water change, but I've sold my Discus fish and since they out of tank I haven't done a water change for 3weeks now. I've tested my water the weekend pH 6.5, NO3 10ppm, NO2 0ppm, GH 8, KH 6 CL2 0. The only new water where weekly 20 liter to refill it it again. My plants is doing great and the 12 fish in the tank seems to be all happy.

    Maybe give your sump filter to build up some bacteria get a few more fish and hold on your WC.
     
  4. Jwh

    Jwh

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    Important question is what are your parameters, if these are ok, you filter works, and the rest pretty much doesn't matter.
    I saw the video on how to make this filter on YouTube and thought this a clever, cost effective way to make a filter. @Tetra, it's a trickle filter that drips from the top to the bottom, through a number of trays filled with media, drilled at the bottom of the trays to let the water through to a sump from where it is pumped back to the tank.
    The use of pot scourers in filters is not uncommon, especially in the US (scrubbies as they are called there). I currently have them in two of my canisters, packed tightly, on end, they are fantastic, great filtration, easy to clean, and cheap at around R10 per pack of 6.
    I agree that too many water changes at an early stage in a filters life is not ideal, you should measure your parameters daily until cycled, weekly thereafter.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2016
  5. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    I used a filter like yours which Cesar also built and he had another one in his tank
    While the fish were small it worked like a dream. Once the fish started growing we could see that long term it might not be good enough...

    After I added my 2 fully grown Oscars it did not cope well with the heavy bio load and I changed it and added a sump instead.
    So they nice depending on what fish you going keep. Just my opinion...
    Cesar has also changed his to a sump now
     
  6. OP
    guillaume

    guillaume

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    thx for the advice mutch appreciated i hear wat you say before i adde the oscar i did let the wast build up but i will definitely consider wat you say and i will slow down on the water changes testing the water regularly . during my wc my filter media still stays wet i only do it in there to heat up the water temp so no shock to the fish
     
  7. koganm

    koganm

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    Nice filter there, but its just to complicated in my opinion.

    The problem with your prefilter/trickle filter is that if Eskom decides to have 8/9 hour power cuts, then your bacteria will die since the media will not be damp enough.

    I still believe in the age old saying "KISS - keep it simple stupid" (Please note that I am by no means calling you stupid..... :cool:)

    If it were me, I would chuck the prefilter, add two separator's in the sump and voila, you have one of the best filter/sump designs for a freshwater setup
    - less clogging
    - huge filter surface area
    - no extra costs and headaches

    Here is the design I speak of.

    ****EDIT - the below image is the incorrect attachment. Will attach the correct image shortly.

    Sump Design.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  8. koganm

    koganm

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    This is the correct design diagram

    Sump Design.jpg

    Mods, Please will you delete the image on my last post as this may cause confusion in the future.

    Sump Design.jpg
     
  9. OP
    guillaume

    guillaume

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    i am planing on keeping a oscar how did the wet dry not cope ?
     
  10. OP
    guillaume

    guillaume

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    i do love this design! thanx but for now i will stic to the wet dry
     
  11. OP
    guillaume

    guillaume

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    but in this filter would all of the media get water as it looks like only the left side of media would get atension ?
     
  12. Tronix69

    Tronix69

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    just a quick question but what if you put a stand pipe in the scrubber section. that way if the power does go out at least your bacteria wont die. or even beter is you can add an auto siphon so it will still remain a wet dry but if the power goes out then its is more likely that you bacteria will survive.
     
  13. woestynbaber

    woestynbaber

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    i agree with guillaume, flow through that sump design will only go through a partial amount of bio media, bb will grow on all of your media but aeration will limit to lets say the first third of media, in a sump setup as per diagram i would ad a trickle plate to distribute water flow and a air stone or 4, can also place filter wool on the trickle plate, wet dry sumps are simply the best way to go but unfortunetly eksdom wont allow it, as soon as you get a power out you're exposed media's bb will die of
     
  14. MariaS

    MariaS Moderator

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    Assuming yours works like ours did, the water goes in at the top of your trays and through the media.
    Although your media is all wet, the water pretty much goes through in a straight line meaning the debris concentrates in the area f flow and not spread out making use of all the media, not sure if I make sense....
    example, 2 or3 weeks after cleaning, the wool would be filthy and clogged long where the water runs but the wool round would be fairy clean so.. you not benefiting from all the media in the trays
    Also as has been mentioned, when power is off for 5 hours, the top trays dry out

    With Oscars or similar messy fish, you need all the media to be used to its full potential and maximum water volume that you can have
    After the adult oscars were introduced my water in that tank would actually start going murky before the next water change.

    Since I changed it to the sump, I have not had problem water is crystal clear
    I believe a lot of guys overseas use it and that's why Cesar tried but this is what we found...
    Maybe in a different setup it works well...
     
  15. OP
    guillaume

    guillaume

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    wat if when the power does goes out i add the bio balls into the sump water with an airstone ?


    thanx guys i am reading all of the post and i am considering all that is being said !
     
  16. OP
    guillaume

    guillaume

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    i took your advice and law off the water chandges to wat lvl should it build up ? have skipped 1 day so far and no reading all is still 0 and i did feed alot today and yesterday
     
  17. woestynbaber

    woestynbaber

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    you can do that but lets say your not home? also adding the bioballs and pushing through enough air you wil basicly create a fluidised bed filter witch is excellent aswell, not enough oxygen and yor aerobic bacteria will die of and anaerobic will start to take its place
     
  18. koganm

    koganm

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    Remember guys that a sump will operate at the level that it is primed with. That being said, if it is primed correctly, all of the media is used. You could even use the same filter design (with a tweak or two) as a trickle filter.

    So how would you prime the above design to operate as "sump"???
    For a drilled tank:
    Well you would allow the sump to fill automatically by filling water into the tank and NOT the sump (This is infact how all sumps should be primed) until the water level in the sump is above the filter media. You can even allow the water to fill up higher than baffle A, but NOT higher than B. Once you are satisfied, turn your return pump on and you see that all the media will be used.

    For a non drilled tank i.e, DIY overflow
    Follow the same process of filling the sump but the very careful. The the amount of water drained from tank during a powerout is highly dependant on how you assemble the overflow so make very sure that the sump can handle that amount of water.

    I have tested the above methods with multiple baffles as well as the below design and can therefore say for certain that all of the media will be used. Furthermore, the below design provided me with the highest flow rate and no clogging whatsoever.

    I do agree with @woestynbaber about the airstone under your filter media. Its the one thing i forgot to mention. Thx bud.

    Sump Design.jpg

    Sump Design.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  19. koganm

    koganm

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    Then that section is no more a "wet dry" filter but rather a "sump in a sump" sort of thing.

    What do you mean auto siphon? A siphon works on gravity and continuous flow of liquid with no air. So if a siphon breaks, how would you start it automatically?
     
  20. koganm

    koganm

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    Why not just leave the bioballs in the sump??? Its so much less of a headache. No manual labour. And mor important, what you are not home when the power goes out?

    Glad you are Dude. This is what a forum is about. Learn, learn, learn :beer:


    ****EDIT****
    Sorry bud, saw your reply only after posting mine..
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  21. Tronix69

    Tronix69

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    true about the stand pipe. would be piontless.

    the autosiphon is also called a bell siphon. basically your water will fill to a specific point then the siphon will start and drain all the water in the container until or until the seal is broken. i use it in my aquaphonics system and it works extremely well. difficult to show in a picture so have given a youtube link below where they explain how it works.
    Trouble FREE Bell Syphon - Automatic Siphon Aquaponics Flood Drain Beds - YouTube
     

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