Help Needed, desperate, sick fish?

Discussion in 'Advanced Topics' started by Reafer, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Reafer

    Reafer

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    Hi Prof
    I am desperate and dont know were else to turn . I would like to start of by saying the the fish that is sick is a Red jewel , i realize that this is a black listed fish and its against the rules of the forum to be discussed. This was my first fish that i ever got , my neighbours moved out and left it to die, so please see my point that i love this fish even though its blacklisted and do not like to see any animal suffer.

    If the admins feel that this post is against the rules it can be deleted.

    This might seem a bit long winded prof but i want to give u all the info u need.
    When i got him a put it in a 3ft tank and went to the LFS who gave me 2 malawi's , 2 CAE and a blue jewel to be his tank mates. all was fine for about 6 months untill the malawi's and CAE got bigger and startyed bullying the jewels which went into hiding and fin clamping , it took me about 3 months to get a new 4 ft tank to try give them more space. the jewel gt better for about 7 days then went into hiding again and clamping only 1 fin.

    I then moved the malawi's out into there own tank and had the jewels in the 4ft with the 2 CAE the jewel still just sat there not moving on the floor.
    i moved all the fish out and only left the jewel in the tank.
    All he does is sit on the bottom and come up for food now , he has been by himself for about 1 month and still just sits there.
    When he swims he tries to rubs his side on stuff like the floor and rocks and sort of flick flaks around the side of the tank, i really dont know how to discibe it. He looks healthy and eats like a horse twice a day.
    My ph is 7.5 (its allways been 7.5)
    and all the rest of my water paramters are good
    both nitrates and nitrites are 0
    I have tried changing there water every 2 days for a week and i added some aquarium salt about 2 tablespoons to 200l water , i cycle the 4 ft tank for about 3 weeks
    I havent seen him swim around in ages. he is in a 4ft tank and stays in a 1ft area

    Everyone i have spoken to doesnt have a clue
    He has been like this in total for about 3 months,
    Am I just being stupid? i havent been keeping fish long enought to know :p

    Thanks
    Antony
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
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  3. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Hi Antony,

    I think it sounds as though your fish has got some external parasites such as Chilodinella or something similar, that is why he is trying to rub himself to get rid of the stuff. Your salt treatment has helped but not enough to get rid of the problem. I would advise that you treat him with a course of something like Sterazin or an equivalent. Let us know if he gets better!

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
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  4. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    Thanks so much for the quick responce and thx for actually giving me some hope :)
    were can i get that will the LFS have it? should i treat all my fish with it they all rub every now and then ? will it affect fish if they not sick?
     
  5. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    You can get the medication from your LFS.

    If your other fish are also rubbing then they also have the problem. This disease is highly infectious and will spread easily to other tanks if you move water or plants from one tank to the next, or if you use the same net, pipes etc.

    If the other fishes are not sick, then do not treat them but if you move any fish or equipment as I have indicated, the disease will spread.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  6. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    sorry i forgot my clown pleco is in the 4ft with the jewel will the medication be ok for him? thx i am going to treat both tanks they have been sharing plants and a filter....
     
  7. wito-zn

    wito-zn

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    Hi prof
    I have a convict and he also rubs himself against the gravel but only after he has moved the gravel and there is a clearing right down to the tank base. is this just a matting thing or does he also have Chilodinella?
     
  8. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    Hi they didnt have the product u recommended .
    I got:
    Rainbow aquariums Pond treatment
    to treat protozoan infrctions:costia , chilodonella, trichodina, bacterial infections, gill and skin flukes.

    will this be OK?
     
  9. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Hi Reafer,

    I am sure that your golden pleco will be just fine with that treatment, one has to be careful with loaches with these treatments not with plecos.

    Re the Rainbow med, it sounds like it will be treating your problem by the sounds of things, but you must check if it contains copper, as those meds can have some negative consequences for the aquarium in general, snails may die and a few other things as well. However, your fishes are toughies so this med should still be ok.

    Wito-zn, you must first make a careful diagnosis before thinking of a treatment and if your fish is otherwise well and does not have clamped fins, I do not think that he has the problem. You can do far more damage but unnecessary treatment.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  10. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    i treated both tanks , lets hold thumbs :p
    Thanks for all your help i will keep you updated
     
  11. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    how long does it normally take for the meds to show a difference? i think he has been trying to rub on things more in the last 2 days, i would almost say he is trying to rub his gill area's but i am not sure , when he rubs he puffs both gills out and i have seen him yawning more :p i dont know what else to call it :)
     
  12. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    These bugs attach themselves to the fish and then hide themselves in a capsule or a cyst as it is called. They then multiply in this cyst and then the cyst pops and the new baby parasites then go into a freeswimming form so that they can spread and attach themselves to a new fish or host as we call it. The time that they spend in the cyst is about 6 days long. The meds are often only active against the free living forms and then knock these out. What this means is that you have to wait for six to seven days before all the cysts pop and then the meds kill off the baby parasites.

    If your fish is therefore scratching he is perhaps just scratching as usual on the parasites but he is not being infected with new parasites as these are being killed as they go freeswimming into the water. For this reason you will also only see big improvements after 6 -7 days and not immediately.

    So, what I am saying is be patient and follow the dosages and prescribed schedules of the meds and things will improve.

    Please let me know how things proceed.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
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  13. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    thx for the info , i wil try be patient :)
     
  14. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    Hi
    I hav now complet my meds on the tank , once a day for 7 days, do u think i should add a 8th dose? he doesnt seem to be scratching as much but doesnt look any happier.
    here are a few pics of him, his gills , under his chin and at the base of his pectoral fins seem abit red and he has a black spot on his chin.
    [​IMG]
    more pics are coming but are slow to upload
    Thanks
    Antony
     
  15. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Hi Antony,

    I would suggest that you do give the 8th treatment.

    Can you tell us what the medication that you are using says on the label with regard to what it contains.

    I would like to know so that I can determine if the medications are strong enough.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
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  16. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    it doesnt say the contents on the bottle, i know its got formalin and m......green in it as far as i can remember , its called Rainbow Aquariums Pond treatment no water change needed . it stains my hands . i added 8 drops to the tanks once a day , 190L of water

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  17. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    Hi Reafer,

    OK, I was worried that you might tell us something like this. The cheaper meds still contain the older medications as a result of which they are less effective and have more side effects.

    Formalin is not good for any filter and is not all that effective against these bugs. Malachite green as it is called is also an older medication and is not always effective any more as many bugs are resistant to it.

    Although the treatment that you have used has perhaps given the bugs a good knock, there is not guarantee that it has or will work because these meds are less effective. You may need more modern and effective meds to get this problem under control. What is available in your LFS? I mentioned that Sterazin would be good or Protozin, might even be better, but what is available? If all the meds contain malachite green, formalin or copper sulphate they will be slow acting and not finally kill off the bugs. The reason why your fish are surviving in the first place is because they actually are very tough. If you were keeping more sensitive fishes they would all have been dead a long time ago.

    Please check on what is available at your LFS and get back to me.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  18. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    i looked in all our LFS when i first started looking for sterazin , that was the only thing i could get. i am thinking i might have to order , but i will go have another look tomorrow
     
  19. Dirk

    Dirk Dwarf Catfish

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    See if your fishes improve after stopping the treatment for a few days and it they do not improve, you are going to have to get hold of some stronger medications if you want those fishes to recover fully.

    Kind regards,

    Dirk
     
  20. OP
    Reafer

    Reafer

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    thx for your help again and thx for the food my fish love it. I will give it a few days and if he doesnt improve i willl order sterazin , i love my fish and want them to be in perfect health
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  21. Zafgak

    Zafgak Old fart

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    Reafer - If you need Sterazin or Protozin and cannot find it there - give me a PM and I can arrange for you ...
     

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