Help Breeding Discus

Hi marco ,
have seen your threads on your discus breeding congrats !! I envy you !
I am in the process of setting up a discus breeding room and would appreciate if i could bounce some things off you to assist if you dont mind , also would be great to know someone else who is keen on breeding so we can look at sourcing good breeding pairs , I also have quiet a few large discus that I am hoping will pair off soon , and maybe if you are looking for new blood or singles we could help each other to get some good strains together ?

 

Hi @Wayne 0

Thanks for the congrats.

I could try help, so you are welcome to ask. As far as swopping etc, I get all my fish from one supplier. I do this partly to reduce risk of cross infestation of bacteria and other nasties. I have a good understanding with supplier and my fish are prepped and QT by him untill we agree on sending them to me. I dont mean it in a bad way but I would not easily allow fish into my hatchery. Even ones coming from him go through a QT phase by me before being allowed to swim with the rest. I have lost BIG time in the past by slacking on this little issue.

Rgds

Marco

 

hi marco

Makes sense not to risk you prized fish , so cool understand , I can relate to that and with the price of them it makes sense

with your breeding - do you use RO water or are you just lowering the PH with discuss buffer ? and how do you lower your water hardness ?

do you have breeding pairs for sale or know where I could get some from - reliable and healthy source of course ?

do you have any other tricks , if you are willing to tell ....... as to how to encourage them to start spawning if I have known pairs ?

Thanks ....... any help would be greatly appreciated !!

 

Hi Wayne 0

If you dont mind me asking, how long have you been keeping discus?
How many do you have?
Strains?
Size and approx age?
What size tank?
What are you feeding them?

I will gladly assist you, I really have no problem. I just want to make an estimate because many times people want answers to those questions when the basics of keeping them are not even met yet. What you HAVE to remember, and this took me a long time to realize and understand. Breeding Discus is NOT difficult, BUT, its NOT easy! Thats sounds like a contradiction but it isnt To get them to breed is as easy as having a male and female in a tank with clean water. AS LONG AS MANY OTHER THINGS THAT GO BEFORE THAT ARE DONE CORRECTLY.

I dont see your location and that is important. I do use Ro water but again, this must be done correctly and within certain parameters depending on your source water.

I have no pairs for sale, and you will struggle to find any or pay a rudicolous amount for a "pair" that may/may not ever breed for you.

In my opinion, unless keeping Wild Discus, as long as you have vibrant healthy fish of the correct age, getting them to spawn is the easy part, I even have some that I'm trying to figure out how to get them to STOP spawning, and I'm not exaggerating. Healthy fish will quite easily spawn, its getting them to look after fry and not eating spawn after spawn that is the tricky part, and then getting the fry which are very delicate to grow to a sellable size as quick as possible so as not to cause stunting that is difficult.

Marco

 

Morning Marco

To answer your questions , I have been keeping discus for less than a year , but had aquariums all my life and Now 35 !!

I have:
Pigeon bloods
Blue Turq
Red turq
Blue Diamonds
Marlbro's
Snake skins

They range in size and age , but most of them are full grown between 18 and 24 months size between 10 and 16 cms

I have a 250 liter tank with 2 eheim filter and a 550 liter tank with sump and 1 eheim filter

Food

Tetra prima
Blood worm
Brine shrimp
Ox heart mix

I stay in glen marias , kempton park

My water is quiet soft - gh less than 4

Display tank PH 6.8

Tank which I am trying to get pairs to form PH 6.5 and KH about 6
With regular water changes

The fish are all healthy and all rush to the front of the tank at feeding times and will even eat from my fingers

As mentioned I have ordered 8 breeding tanks which I hope to have set up in a separate room to attempt breeding so need all the info I can to help ensure they get down to being good parents

Should I Concentrate on getting the KH lower ? making the water even softer , or should i use peat or black water extract to enduce breeding ?

Water temp 29 degrees in both tanks

Any tips will be greatly appreciated , or pointers as to where i am goping wrong or could improve ?

also want to become a proud owener of some breeding fish !!!

Thanks

Wayne

 

Hi Wayne

For keeping Discus your water sounds fine. When you have a pair in a breeding tank you can start worrying about getting it perfect, so for now I wouldnt adjust anything.

They seem at about the right age, although according the size you mention coupled with age, some seem to be stunted. At 18 months Discus are fully grown if not mature though, and very little growth will take place at this age. So at 10cm they have definitely stunted. It doesnt mean they are now crap or useless, its just difficult to breed with them as the broods are small and special tricks will be needed to get the fry to the parents flanks.
Strain related - Blue diamonds are a pain in the butt! They are problematic and you struggle to get them to adulthood, and then to get them to look after eggs and fry is another pain.! Fry are weak and die for no reason.
Pigeon and Marlboro(which also is a pigeon) are apparently difficult to breed. I have never tried as I have a serious distaste in all Pigeon strains (personal issue. . . haha). Apparently they have problems with slime production and some say they have fry that just die after two days, and others have NO problem. I cant comment. I think @mattie bred Pigeon blood so he could give some info maybe.
All Turquiose strains are old and much easier strains to breed from. I have a Bril Turq and he is an absolute star with fry care etc. It does depend on breeder etc i suppose.

Man, I dont know why your fish have not spawned yet. Could be many things. I hardly ever struggle with spawning them, its the next part which takes me time, getting them to look after the offspring. Prof.Dirk visited me yesterday and he can vouch for my main tank, with 8 fish in a 450liter having two spawns that took place the day before yesterday. I try and split male from female to prevent this as it seriously leads to fighting and fish getting injured. At the moment I am waiting for fish from Altum so my one tank is being kept ready for them, otherwise they would not be together.
If i was in your shoes I would start moving fish around. Two from one tank to the other tank and vice versa. Wait a month and try again. Also, if you "neglect" water changes slightly the impact of a water change is much higher so they will experience it much more dramatically, which could induce spawning. Sometimes its a small thing, and it is hard to pinpoint. Alter feeding, less of one thing more of another. Try CLEAN earthworms, live brine shrimp, mozzie larvae. Its a matter of identifying the pair that is tedious and can be frustrating.

I'm NOT suggesting one needs a 'midas' touch to breed these fish, but in my experience, spawning is really easy. When compared to wild discus which can be impossible to spawn, domestic's should be much easier. When i seperate the males and females and reintroduce them to a new tank, some pairs will literally spawn within an hour or two after being moved. No talk of typical stress etc, they just do it!
I recently "rescued" three medium size "stunted" fish from a lady that just wanted them gone before they die. They suffered from hole in the head disease and looked terrible. I kept them in an outside room in a three foot standard and started treatment. After a month two spawned for the first time. They are not great discus so I decided to give them to a friend of mine who has been trying to breed for ages. In the next month of QT by me they spawned another 3 times. I then passed them on to the guy who placed them in a breeding tank. Its 6 weeks now. . .NOTHING!!!! Water parameters are fine, food is good, I really just have no idea why they dont spawn.

I hope this gives some food for thought, and will get you to try some things that might make it successfull

Marco

 

Dear Marco

Thanks for the info , some food for thought

I see that I have 2 pairs that are starting to separate from the rest and my breeding tanks that I have ordered will only be here next week and then I will still need to get them ready , once they are up and running I will move them to there private condo's and then just be a little patient , I think that is the key in my case !

I will let you know how they do

Thanks for all your help

Much appreciated

 

Hi Wayne,

Just a question. What size breeding tank did you order?

Marco

 

Hi marco

they are L X W X H - 50 X 45 X 50 CMS

Wayne

 

Marco

sorry , do you know where i can get the breeding cones from ?

Thanks

Wayne

 

@Wayne, sorry to jump in here, but if you go to your garden centre you should get some clay pots in a similar shape as the cones.

 

Dear Lara / Mrs Croft

Yes I have given that some though and will go see later today , need a couple just hope the wife wont expect flowers in all of them !!! ha ha

 

You see here's the deal if you want your wife to buy into your hobby. Once you get the pots, why not buy her a bunch of flowers and tell her....................

 

@Wayne

Tank size is ok for breeding. Laracroft is right about using flower pots. You can also use a tile standing upright or even pvc piping. They all work fine and I have used them all previously.

Marco

 

Thank Lara and marco

Managed to get some pots yesterday , my tanks are supposed to be ready late this week or next week , have converted an outside room to be my fish room , cant wait to get all set up and get the water and filters cycled !! feel like a little kid again !!

Marco , have you considered importing good quality fish to breed , or do you think it will just be too expensive ?

what do you think the value of a 16-17 cm fish is ? say for example sake a blue turq ?

what are you looking for the big snakeskin you are selling and how much difference would there be in price if he was fertile ?

basically what I am trying to establish is what are people willing to pay for large fish / pairs / proven breeding pairs ?






Kind Regards

Wayne

 

Hi Wayne,

I DO import good quality fish. I do not do so myself but have Altum that do so for me. I have no idea about importing criteria, but I do know minimum quantities etc play a role, plus you need time and space to take care of the new arrivals. I dont have either.

That fish went to a good friend of mine. I have been after a Bril Turq female that he has and we agreed on a swop. It might sound contradictory to my previous statement abt NOT swopping fish, but both his and my fish have been exposed to each other by previous endeavours, so I know I can trust the source. I dont think "fertility" per say has any influence on price. 9 out of 10 you wouldnt know what you are buying (male/female) so knowing fertility will only happen once you have spawned them many times.

Price of an Adult fish is very relative. I have seen some go for R1600, but some strains cost that much at 3inches! I suppose it relative to what people are willing to pay for it, and to be honest, ppl always go cheap. THATS why LPS hardly ever carry quality Discus, its just too expensive. Take pigeon blood as an example. In SA you always find the "old" pigeon strains with tons of black speckles (peppering) across the head and body region. These fish are NOT popular across the world yet in SA they still sell. Why? Because importers buy them! At a higher price a new "clean" pigeon blood can be imported which is free of those spots. These do not come to SA regularly, unless specifically ordered.

Now what compounds this problem is we then have people who cross these pigeons with other discus strains and they are also thrown into the market. These fish, due to the genetics of the Pigeon strain will have even more peppering, and thus the strain gets "dirtier". This explains partly my dislike in the pigeon strain.

What you should bear in mind is the following- even a pair of near perfect AAA rated fish will give you good, average and below average offspring. The same for B rated fish, with only percentages differing in each instance. Its a good curve to learn with what you have, and later get what you want.

Marco