Gouramies bly vrek

Hi Prof

Ek wil net graag weet of jy kan help met my gouramies. Dis meestal Sunsets en Emeralds. Die vis begin net onaktief raak met geen uiterlike merke of iets -lê net rond. Ek gee dan gewoonlik Tetra se general tonic maar het nog nie een gouramie gered gekry nie. Wel ek behandel nie die regte oorsaak nie ne. Ek het opgelees dat sekere bakteriee werk inwendig en laat geen merke nie is dit waar.

So hoe moet ek nou maak en wat laat hulle so onaktief raak en dan vrek.

Groete

Nelis Holtzhausen ( Fonkie)

Translation by Prof Bellstedt:

Hi Prof,

I would just like to know if you can help me with my gouramis. They are mostly Sunsets and Emeralds. The fishes just start become lees active with no external marks or anything - they just lie around. I then normally dose with Tetra general tonic but I have been unable to save a single gourami in this way. Well, I think that I am not treating the actual cause. I have read up that certain bacteria work internally and that no external marks can be seen, is this true?

So, what would you suggest I do, and what causes them to become so inactive and die.

Regards

Nelis Holtzhausen ( Fonkie)

 

Hi Nelis,

Om jou vrae te beantwoord moet jy asb vir my sê waarvandaan jy kom, maw waar hou jy jou visse aan, en dan moet jy vir ons vertel onder watter kondisies jy hulle aanhou, bakgrootte, hoeveel visse per tenk, filtrasie en temperatuur, voeding, hoeveel en hoe gereeld jy water verruil ens. asb.

Dankie Dirk

Translated by Dirk Bellstedt:

Hi Nelis,

to answer your question you must tell me where you come from, in other words where you keep your fishes, and then you must tell us under which conditions you keep them, tank size, how many fishes per tank, filtration and temperature, feeding, how many and how regularly you change water etc. please.

Thanks Dirk

 

Hi Dirk

Dis n 1.2 m x .45m x .45m tenk daars 2 groot golden gouramies, 4 emeralds geen sunsets (dood), 10 red tail neons, +- 20 corys ( panda,pepper,leopard,schwartzi) en dan 7 Yoyo loach van 5 cm - 15 cm. Ek bly in Potchefstroom probeer so 1 maal in twee weke n 40 -50 % water verandering doen. Ek voer twee blokkies bloed wurm met baie min tetra pro in die oggend en dan kry hulle flakes en pellets van tetra in die aand. water temp. is gewoonlik nie hoer as 26 grade.

Ek het een van jou antw. gelees waar jy vir die persoon se die bakteriee groei in hulle maag klink vir n plep soos ek na iets wat die oorsaak kan wees, die probleem is ek kry nie medisyne in die dorp vir bloat nie. Help asb.

Wat die soute betref ek het toevallig op n site afgekom wat hulle se jy kan epsom sout gebruik vir ich en parasiete ek het epsom en aquarium soute gebruik eintlik net om te toets of die visse sou vrek en hulle het nie ek het nie eintlik vir ich behandel nie. Ek het n broei tenk met corys en hulle het die epsom gekry.

Groete

Nelis

Translation by Prof Bellstedt:

Hi Dirk

It is a 1.2 m x .45m x .45m tank there are 2 large golden gouramis, 4 emeralds no sunsets (all died), 10 red tail neons, +- 20 corys ( panda,pepper,leopard,schwartzi) and then 7 Yoyo loaches of 5 cm - 15 cm. I stay in Potchefstroom, try to change 40 -50% of the water once every second week. I feed two blocks of blood worm with lots of tetra pro in the mornings and then they get flakes and pellets from tetra in the evening. water temp. is usually not higher than 26 degrees.

I have read one of your answers where you have told the person that the bacteria grow in the stomach, for a pleb it sounds as though this could be the cause of the problem, the problem is though that I cannot get the medication in this town for bloat, please help.

With regard to the salts, I by coincidence stumbled on a website which says that you can use epsom salts for ich and parasites, as a result of which I used epsom and aquarium salts actually only to test if the fishes would die and I did not actually treat them for ich. I have a breeding tank with corys and I gave them the epsom salts.

Regards

Nelis

 

Poor fish if you are conducting experiments to see whether they survive or not.

 

OK Fonkie,

Dankie vir al hierdie informasie en dit gee vir my 'n baie beter idee van wat hier aangaan.

Eerstens is gouramis hoofsaaklik plant vreters en hulle dieet moet meer plantkomponente bevat en nie sulke hoë proteïen inhoud nie. Jy moet nie die pellets voer nie, ek neem aan dis Tetra bits, want die proteïen inhoud is te hoog. Ek sou ook aanbeveel dat jy spirulina flakes probeer in die hande te kry en meer daarvan te voer.

Ek kan baie duidelik vir jou meedeel dat die voeding van daardie bloedwurm die rede vir jou probleme is. Die bloedwurm wat in Suid Afrika beskikbaar is kom uit die Ooste, maw uit Singapoer en Malaysië waar dit gevoer word op varkmis. Die varke word tewens in hokke gehou, die mis word met water afgespoel en direk in damme in waaruit hulle dan die bloedwurm vang. Dit beteken dus dat die bloedwurm uit die ooste met baie ernstige derm bakteriëe gelaai is en jou dropsy is DIREK hieraan toe te skryf. Vir diskus voeding is dit so goed soos 'n doodsertifikaat en die vriesproses maak beslis nie die bakteriëe dood nie. Ek voer bloedwurm in uit Europa waar dit met die afsaksel van die biermaak proses gevoer word en met hierdie tipe bloedwurm kry jy nooit hierdie probleme nie.

Dan wil ek vir jou inlig dat sout en Epson sout milde antibakteriese werking toon, maar dit is nie naastenby genoeg om die bakteriëe wat hierdie bloat veroorsaak te stop nie. Ook is die konsentrasie wat jy aanbeveel besonder hoog en die osmoregulering van die visse gaan baie swaarkry, dis amper asof hulle in seewater gehou word. Dit is ook hoekom hulle so sonder energie rondswem, Potch se kraanwater is reeds hard, en hierdie visse is sagtewater visse en nou gooi jy nog 'n kruiwa vol sout by, dit gaan hulle vrek maak!

Ek wil dus aanbeveel dat jy een van die groot verskaffers se medikasie gebruik en al hierdie ander ou middels, soos ek al vantevore gesê het op jou ouma se kombuisrak moet los asb.

Beste groete,

Dirk

Translation by Prof Bellstedt:

OK Fonkie,

Thanks for all of this information, it gives me a better idea of what is going on here.

Firstly, gouramis are primarily plant eaters and their diet must contain more plant components and not contain such a high protein content. You must not feed the pellets, I assume they are Tetra bits, because the protein content is too high. I would recommend that you try to get spirulina flakes and that you try to feed more of them.

I can very clearly inform you that the feeding of that bloodworm is the cause of your problems. The bloodworm which is available in South Africa comes from the East, in other words from Singapore and Malaysia where they are fed on pig manure. As a matter of fact, the pigs are kept in pens, the manure is flushed away with water and directly into dams from which bloodworms are then harvested. This means that the bloodworms from the east are loaded with very serious gut bacteria and your dropsy can be DIRECTLY ascribed to this. For feeding of discus this is equivalent to a death certificate and the freezing process very definitely does not kill the bateria. I import bloodworm from Europe where they are fed with the sediment of the beer production process and from this type of bloodworm you never get this sort of problem.

Then I want to inform you that salt and Epsom salt does have mild antibacterial properties, but that is not nearly enough to combat the bacteria that cause bloat. The concentrations that you recommend are also very high and the osmoregulation of the fishes is going to have huge problems, it is almost as though you are keeping them in sea water. This is also the reason why they swim around with so little energy, Potch's tap water is already hard, and these fishes are soft water fishes and now you add a whole wheel barrow of salt, this is going to kill them!

I would therefore recommend that you use one of the large supplier's medications and that all of these older medications, as I have said before, be left on your grandmother's kitchen shelf.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Dirk

Moet se ek geniet jou op en aanmerkings heel komies - baie dankie vir al die inligting ek wil egter net twee goed weet. Sal Tetra sa droee bloed wurms werk of glad nie en wat se proteiene kan ek dan gee in plek van bloedwurms.

Nogmaals dankie

Nelis

die Tetra is Granular food ( Tetra Prima) jy kan nou sien eks nog n beginner in die game

Translated by Dirk Bellstedt:

Dirk

I must say I enjoy your comments, quite comical - many thanks for all the info, but I want to know two things. Will Tetra's dry bloodworms work or not at all, and which proteins can I feed instead of bloodworms?

Thanks once again,

Nelis

the Tetra is Granular food ( Tetra Prima) you can now see that I am still a beginner in the game

 

Ok Vonkie uit die Noordweste,

Dankie vir jou komplimente....

Jy sal verbaas wees om te hoor dat bloedwurms se proteïen inhoud eintlik verstommend laag is, hulle bestaan hoofsaaklik uit water, het bietjie yster en proe lekker vir die visse, en dus eet hulle dit graag. Die eintlike waarde van bloedwurms is dat hulle ruvesel bevat.

Dan is die gevriesdroogde voere oor die algemeen nie so goed soos die gevriesde voer nie, omdat die vriesdroog proses suurstof laat indring in die voer en daardeur oksideer baie van die goeie komponente net eenvoudig weg en verloor hulle waarde. Dus beveel ek dit nie aan nie, alhoewel dit natuurlik ten minste nie die bakteriese kontaminasie sou hê nie.

Ek sou net eenvoudig nie gouramis op so 'n hoë proteïen inhoud voer nie, in die natuur vreet hulle dit ook nie en hulle ontneem hulle proteïene in kleiner hoeveelhede vanuit plant materiaal en alge en hulle bly tog gesond. Dieselfde beginsel geld ook vir Malawis.

En moenie jou laat afsit deur al die hogere breins op hierdie forum nie, almal moet tog êrens begin, al was dit nou 1968 toe ek begin het....

Beste groete,

Dirk

PS, O ja en moet my tog nie Oom noem nie asb....

Translated by Dirk Bellstedt:

Ok Vonkie from the Northwest,

Thanks for your compliments....

You will be surprised to hear that the protein content of bloodworms is actually astoundingly low, they largely consist of water, have a little iron in them and are tasty for the fishes, and for this reason they like eating them. The actual value of bloodworms is that they contain roughage.

Then, in general, the freeze dried foods are in general not as good as frozen foods because the freeze drying process allows oxygen to penetrate the food and this oxidizes away many of the good components and therefore they loose their value. I therefore do not recommend them, although they at least do not contain the bacterial contamination.

I would just simply not feed gouramis with a food that has a high protein content, in nature they also do not eat this and they take in their proteins in smaller quantities from plant material and algae and in spite of this, they still stay healthy. The same principle applies to Malawis.

And don't be put off by all the boffins on this forum, everyone has to start somewhere, even if it was in 1968 when I started...

Kind regards,

Dirk

PS, Oh yes and please don't call me "Oom"....

 

ruvesel = ?
interpretation needed please

 

Hi Khalid,

Thanks for bearing with us.....

Ruvesel = roughage.

I might translate our little interlude later, if I have the time.... as I think there are quite a few lessons here that the non-Afrikaans speakers could also benefit from.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

I must admit it was slow reading but managed


I have loads of frozen Hikari blood worms, all are labelled parasite free.
Can they be trusted?

 

Thanks Prof Dirk, that's really thoughtful of you

 

Hi Khalid,

This is very clever use of the English language. They call it "parasite free" and by that they are implying that they are free of parasitic worms as bloodworm can also harbor these, but this is by no means a gaurantee that they do not contain harmful bacteria, they cannot certify them free of that and they definitely still contain bacteria.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Unfortunately I'm an English Speaker from Durban so my Afrikaans is non-existant.

I did use google translate, you can get the general idea of what it means (thought I'd save you some time Prof as you mentioned you were really busy):

Thanks for all this information and it gives me a much better idea of who is ahead.

First gouramis mostly plant vreters and their diet should contain more plantkomponente and not such high protein content. You should not carry the pellets, I assume it's Tetra bits, because the protein content is too high. I would also recommend that you try Spirulina flakes in your hands, get more of them to perform.

I can clearly tell you that the power of those bloedwurm the reason for your problems. The bloedwurm that available in South Africa is coming from the East, ie from Singapore and Malaysia where they are fed on varkmis. Tewens The pigs are kept in pens, the manure with water and rinsed directly in dams in which they urged the bloedwurm catch. This means that the bloedwurm from the east with severe intestinal bacteria are loaded and your DIRECT dropsy is adding to write. For discus food is as good as a death certificate and make sure vriesproses not kill bacteria. I carry bloedwurm in from Europe where the sediment from the biermaak process conducted with this type bloedwurm never get these problems.

Then I want to inform you that salt and Epson salt show mild antibacterial effect, but it is not nearly enough for the bacteria that causes this bloat to stop them. Also, the concentration that you are very highly recommended and osmoregulation of the fish is much suffering, it's almost as if they are kept in seawater. This is also why they were so without energy rondswem, Potch's tap water is already hard, and this fish is sagtewater fish and now you're throwing a wheelbarrow full of salt, it will make them die!

I would therefore recommend that you use one of the major suppliers' medication use, and all these other old drugs, as I have said before on your grandmother's kombuisrak to resolve please.

Dirk I currently use Capmon or Capcom "unsure of the spelling" bloodworm, these dont even mention not having parasites.... I assume these are bad?

 

Hi Fonkie
Just to add something, I have seen bigger gouramis pester and stress smaller gouramis like the sunset so much that they stop eating and die.
They will not actually harm them but torture them enough to make them stop moving.

Prof how availble are the spurilina flakes and what kind of diet should you look at for plant eaters like gouramis. Planning to keep some.

 

Sorry, read that aloud and could not stop laughing at myself

 

haha "I would also recommend that you try Spirulina flakes in your hands, get more of them to perform" - I must give this a try! but ya you can get the general idea...

 

Can we use the human spirulina tabs for the fish?

 

Interesting question that Khalid.

LOL at the translation oh boy, gotta love google translation

 

I'm afrikaans and its hard enough. Feels weird reading Afrikaans on a forum.

 

Ag kom nou Franna,

Ek moet vir jou 'n paar taai klappe gee om by te kom.

Beste groete,

Dirk

Translated in my best google translator English (and I have also been chuckling nicely) this would read:

O come now Franna,

I must for you a pair of sticky claps give to come by.

Best greetings........

Hi Kaizer,

The type of bloodworm that you are referring to are "Campcon", the less I say about them the better..... which you can interpret as "enough said".

Kind regards,

Dirk