General ideas on filtration for discus

Hi Prof.

Quick intro, My name is Christo. I have phoned you a couple of times over the last couple of years, while living in Pretoria and now more recently after moving down to Oudtshoorn. Reason I am posting here is maybe others will also benefit from my questions, or be able to give positive input.

I am interested in keeping Discus.

My tank is 120 X 60 X 60cm with water volume of 380L.
I have 40kg silica (pool filter sand) as a substrate.
2 X 300Watt heaters on external temp controller.
PennPlax Cascade1200 Canister Filter (rated 1200L/hr), this I have adapted as a Mechanical filter, just with filter wool in. Reason being the standard baskets that come with it does not fit snug inside the canister and allows a lot of water to flow past and not through filter media. From the canister the water is pushed up into the canopy, where it flows through a biological filter section. This is a black ABS container holding about 6 L volume of bio balls and 2L ceramic rings. I originally designed it as a trickle filter, but was scared that with power outages the medium will dry out.
The canopy has 2 x 4ft tubes, there is about a 1 M “driftwood†piece and very little plants in the tank.
At present I have 5 angels in there, as I would like to get a pair setup in their own tank once they mature.
Water parameters- I have not measured as none of the local shops sell any testing kits and mine are very old. On my old lab pH dip paper I get a pH of 5.4 and on another type a pH of 6. This test strips is very old and I will get new test kits.
Total hardness, I am not sure, but in the last 3 years our kettle as had absolutely no buildup (mountain water). Can water be too soft – not enough buffering of pH and pH goes to low for proper biological filter process?
Need to get Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate test kits, but that I will have to source in George or on the net.
I intend doing some modifications and then letting the tank mature before getting discus.

What I still plan to do is:

• I have another two light fitting, considering adding them in order to be able to put more plants in. But will that not be too bright for Discus?
• Want to add automatic top up = Outside container connected to tank through about 30m irrigation pipe (can possibly serve as de-nitrator for fresh water?) dripping at rate of drop a second to compensate for evaporation. Obviously overflow drain to outside.(This will not be an alternative to water changes)
• Add some sort of nitrate reducer to the filter system. Either add de-nitrating coil to existing return to tank, or add sump with deep sand bed and/or de-nitrating coil and/or plants in sump(possibly on reverse cycle lighting=lights go on when tank lights go off). Tank is not drilled so flow through sump will be slow(200-400L/hr). What are your thoughts? And what is the best flow rate and pipe length?
• Put in more plants, considering planting one corner heavily and reducing to virtually nothing as you move away from there.
• Dither fish, I want to add some bottom feeders, considering ancistrus if I can find, but what about corys? Also some rummy nose tetras, but local shops only have black neons, don’t know if they will handle the heat once I start pushing up the temp.

Still not sure what to do with angels, I want a pair and will put them in their own tank, that leaves me with three more. I remember I spoke to you regarding “Hole in the head†parasite issue some time back, and you mentioned that you had angels and discus together, not sure if that was P. scalare or P. altum. Is there an issue or is it safe?

Regarding dry food, you mentioned you import for your fish, is that still so ?

Also you mentioned a breeder in George. Can you possibly PM me his number. I like the turquoise discus, but want to see what is on the market. Scared to purchase from CT as there is more planes that do not land at George then there is that land, and I do not want my fish to go belly up because of a logistics error.

Feel free to answer as and when you can, by forum or pm. Also if you pm me your number I can explain better if need be.
Anybody else feel free to pitch in.



Regards

(Warned you I was long-winded)

 

Hi Christo,

In spite of your long-winded enquiry, I will have to be brief as I need to get to work today. I will comment on a few things, but if I do not comment on others, I am inferring that those things are in order:

1. Filtration sounds fine.

2. Oudtshoorn water is soft, and you might have to add some course shells in order to stabilize the pH. You will have to experiment with amounts of the shells start with two tablespoons full in you filters.

3. YOu should be careful with too bright lighting, but fairly bright light is actually fine, it is the abrupt changes from dark to bright light that frighten them. The tank should also not be in a position where persons walk past the tank as this really scares discus and causes them to bolt away and then bash into the side of the tank or driftwood and they can injure themselves as a result.

4. Forget about auto topup. If it goes wrong, you could end up with cold water flooding the tank and your fish dying as a result, not to mention the flood in your house.

5. Anaerobic filters are feasible, but I would advise that you read up about this. I do not use denitrating coils or the such-like, far too technical and maintenance intensive.

6. Ancistrus are good, but not all of them can handle the high temps, corys cannot handle the high temps. Rummy noses are good, but not black neons, they cannot handle the heat as well.

7. For the beginner, angels and discus should not be combined as angels do carry the hole-in-the-head parasite.

8. I do import foods, dry and frozen and will be bringing in a shipment from Germany on 27 May. Send me a PM with your private email address so that I can send you an email with an attachment.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Just a quick photo of the tank. Goldy rules the tank, he decides who eats and when.
What still need to be done is definitely add two more t5's ( 2 in now), then add lots more plants(again have to source this outside Oudtshoorn). Solex can I contact you for ideas and help?

 

Hi Rodger - Just to add a bit, Angels carry parasites that Discus do not like - this does not mean they xcannot be kept together.
I would suggest a yearly regimen of a Metrodianozole treatment followed by a water change and Carbon for a few days and then a Flubenol 15 treatment followed by a water change and Carbon for a few days..

PLEASE NOTE Flubenol 15 is NOT the same Flubenol 5 used for pigs etc..
If Prof Dirk agrees with the above I can work out dosage etc. for you.

I would use this just as a precaution - if you QT your fish correctly then this may not be required.

 

Thanx Zafgak, I did a metrinidazole treatment after reading one of your previous posts, in the end I have lost all three of my "big" angels I was complaining about in a different post. The irony is two of the smaller angels that was about half the size of the bigger ones managed to nearly outgrow the big ones in about a month of intensive feeding. First want to stock up on some plants, and then I will have to decide on the discus. The "other half" is fighting for a community tank with cory's and lots of small pretty things.

 

Do these parasites that Angels have effect any other fish with the exception of Discus?

 

Sure, let's take offline via PM

BTW - Awesome log in the tank and almost in the perfect spot too! My mind is already working a bit overtime on the design

Chiao
D

 

Hi Guys,

A few comments before I am signing off until 15 June as I will be going to France and Germany for conferences and meetings:

The active ingredient in Flubendazole 15% and Flubendazole 5% IS THE SAME but the impurities are obviously higher in Flubendazole 5% and these cause problems for discus.

I actually am not in agreement with the comments about the adult angels, as I could sell you large ones that would be perfectly healthy. A lot of it has to do with how you feed them and here I think a lot of mistakes are being made and you may be making them rogerrabbit. You also need high quality frozen foods to keep angels optimally, and most of the dried foods of the quality available in SA are not good enough.

And yes, you need more plants, so speak to solex 69 and after my return I might also be able to help. You also need proper plant food about which you need to contact me about when I return.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Discus and hole in the head

Does the parasites reside in the fish or in the filtration/water too. In other words - can one only remove the fish from the tank before introducing the discus or do you have to cycle the aquarium without any "dangerous" species alltogether?

 

Adult parasites such as flukes, tape worms and capillaria will remain in the fish and will not survive in the water for a period of longer than 24 hours if I were to make an estimate. However, the way these parasites multiply is by producing literally millions of eggs. The chances that a fish will pick up one of the offspring in nature is small because of the large volumes of water and it is for this reason that the parasites have to produce these large numbers of eggs. The eggs hatch after a period of 4 to 6 days after being laid and then need to get onto a host within one or two days after that or else they will die off.

In an aquarium, where everything stays there and the eggs are removed only during water changes, the fishes are exposed to large numbers of tiny parasite offspring on an ongoing basis. This is the reason why baby discus do better in a tank in which one can syphon off the droppings once a day and thereby remove many of the parasite eggs.

So to answer your question, one should cycle the tank for at least ten days without any fishes before introducing discus. In addition, one or two water changes in this period will help to remove freshly hatched parasites.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Prof
Good to see you back in darkest Africa again. I want one pair of angels in their own tank. I am using them to play around with the tank, and set it up so that it is stable when I get discus, so yes I will run the tank for a while without angels before discus, but what about other fish. The bettas will go in their own tank soon, but if all goes according to plan I will have some baby ancistrus in the tank by the weekend (nearly braking my thumbs) and plan on some rummy nose for when I can get my hand on some. Is hole in the head just carried in cichlids?