First try at an Injected CO2 tank with Soil am I doing things right?

Hi Guys!

This is a long one .

So its been a long while , my tank sort of got neglected after the Discus passed on , the tank basically only had 2 clowns , 2 Corys , a black neon tetra and another fish , not sure what it is exactly . Plant wise , I had 3 pieces of anubius in the tank on driftwood for years , and they have been surviving , not growing but surviving .
Scaping wise , it had some large rocks a small piece of driftwood and pool filter sand . The Light bars had also failed so it wasn't getting much light anymore besides natural sunlight.

I decided to move the fish to a smaller temp tank and tear the whole thing down and restart but this time with plants.

In the past , I have been terrible with plants , they always seem to die on me so i thought id give it a go again this time with CO2. (my first experience with CO2)

I Removed everything cleaned up the canister filter , and internal filter .

1) Filled 9 of those mesh type plastic bags with organic potting soil, let them soak in water for 2 weeks , then let them dry out and placed them in water again and after a week in the tank , Covered the bags with Pool filter sand .

2) Placed the Driftwood in the tank with a few tiger eye rocks scattered here and there .

3) Purchased a few plants ( Apparently these are easy plants? ) and some moss and I had my anubius .

4) Planted the bigger ones at the back , and smaller ones at the front , and some on the sides and the moss and anubius onto the driftwood.
( im not sure if I planted them correctly or in the right positions )

5) Placed root supplement tablets in the soil , and filled it up with water .

6) The water was semi clear , but very tea like .

7) Started up the internal filter and let it run .

8) Installed the CO2 and started that up . I also installed an airpump and a bubble stone.
For Co2 , I have a regulator , and a 5kg fire extinguisher , and a diffuser

9) Tank has no canister filter or Heater as I had to use that for the fish temporarily. I do have a pump in the tank though that blows water around . I will move the cansiter filter and heater to the tank once i place the fish in there .

10 ) For lighting , I found a large clothing store retail flood light and placed that at the top , I also installed 4 X submersible LED light bars ( that surprising fit onto the jewel lightbars where the tubes would normally go . They are not under water but just at the top. two bars are only a bright white light and the other two has white and blue light in it.

11) I connected the lighting , Co2 and the Air pump to one of those wifi automation modules and linked it to the rest of the house automation .

12) CO2 goes on at 14:00 and goes off at 19:00
Air pump goes on at 21:00 and goes off at 23:30

13) Lighting goes on at different times .
The two bars with the blue and white turns on at 14:30 and switches off at 20:30
The two bars with only the white light turns on at 15:00 and switches off at 20:00
The floodlight turns on at 10am and turns off at 18:00

This has been running now for 2 weeks . Yesterday , I drained the water almost completely and refilled it with clean water . Its much much clearer now but still has that brown tea sort of look to the water and does seem a lot less misty .

I noticed some plants have melted away and some have grown , the ones on the right seem to have shot up really fast , they were only half way to the top and now they seem to be getting stuck in the filter intake . Many have not died yet.. The hairgrass seems to have died a little. I placed the big leaf plants at the back behind the large piece of driftwood.

Am I doing things correctly? Should I move the plants into different positions?

How would I know when its safe to introduce the fish? What should I test? I don't mind waiting a long time to do this . The fish seem happy in their smaller tank .

Here are pictures of the tank as it stands now .

Please help

 

Some melt is absolutely normal, and if most of your plants are growing then you are off to a good start!

Some thoughts from a recent entrant to the planted tank world (like you I kept tanks for a while but never paid real attention to the plants and their needs before):

1. Your lighting periods and CO2 period seems out of sync, and if you start getting algae I'd shorten the overall lighting period by an hour or two. CO2 can come on about an hour before your floodlight and switch off an hour before the last lights. Either way your CO2 period needs to be longer than 5 hours - especially if you plan to plant more.
2. You don't mention your bubble rate for CO2 (and volume of the tank)? It would also help to get a CO2 checker in the tank to watch how the concentration changes during the CO2 period. I'm running 2.5-3 bubbles per second in my 180l tank (Yours would depend on volume, pH and Kh of your water). An article to get you started, but read as much as you can find on this: https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/choosing-co2-why/co2-system-101
3. In terms of planting it really comes down to you - however, don't assume that big leaves mean tall, and small leaves mean short when planting. Rotalas and ludwigias have small leaves and grow quite tall.
4. You don't mention using any fertilizers? You would need these if you want to go densely planted - root tabs are great but not fully sufficient.
5. You need to test ammonia, nitrites and nitrates to see whether the tank has cycled properly. Once the ammonia has come down and nitrites have come and gone according to the nitrogen cycle then the tank should be good for your fish. If you want to speed the cycle along then Seachem Stability is a good option, as well as using some of your filter material from the established filter in the other tank to establish the bacteria colonies.

I would suggest that you take the time to read up about planted tanks (definitely the pH, kH and CO2 relationships). You can also watch MJ Aquascaping on Youtube - I quite enjoyed his videos on planted tanks when I was getting started.

At the end of the day as long as you have the basics down then your tank will thrive and its up to you to plant and scape as you see fit.

Those are just some quick thoughts from a fellow planted tank newbie. I'm sure some of the OG aquascapers will chip in with their thoughts.

 

@Fredster

Thank you so much for taking the time to help,I Really appreciate all of it .

Soo lets see

1) Lighting , I had a feeling that this would be off but I wasn't to sure ,
I set the lights to turn on towards the afternoon to evening , when most of us get back home , and to switch off by the time we are going to bed .
The blue / White tubes are not as bright as the full white ones , so those turn on first ( Iv always wondered if turning on bright lights all at once would shock the fish?) So iv always done it gradually , from dimm to bright and then from bright to dimm to off .
The LED flood lamp may not be a permanent fixture , it was just a temp light that I had placed on top of my smaller tank that housed the plants before I planted them in the big tank , the plants seemed to like ( they grew in the direction of the light) them so I placed it on top of the tank like in the picture . It does make the tank a lot brighter . ( I did not readjust the timing on it hence it starts up early and switches off at a different time ) I will have to adjust it to be in sync with the other two above.

I will make the adjustment and start the CO2 one hour before the LED flood lamp goes on, So Start at 9am , and turn off at 19:30 . Or I would adjust the Flood light to go on at the same time as the white and blue tubes and switch off at the same time as them , this might be better .

2) The bubble rate seems to be around 2 - 3 bubbles per second , I have installed an ISTA Co2 indicator on Sunday , to measure the CO2 ( but to be honest I haven't really checked it out properly yet)
it sprays a mist of bubbles out of the diffuser which goes into the wave pump which in turn spreads the bubbles all over the tank.
3) PH as of now 22.21 time is 7.12 , Volume ( This is the ltr of the tank correct? ) The tank is a Vision 450 liter tank .
Kh , I dont have Kh Test kit yet , Will have to order this . ( Have never used such a kit before) Should it be at a specific level?
4) I have used Microbe lift Nite out 2 in the tank when I first filled it with water and sechem prime , again after refilling it . I will Do another water change this coming weekend . I dont mind waiting for as long as it takes for it to settle down , but will test the ammonia an other levels this weekend to see where its at .

5) Fertilizers , I honestly thought that the potting soil will be the fertilizer , and the root tablets I used are called Dr Tank Powerball , I thought these were more or less supplements . What fertilizers should I be using ?

I feel though that I may have the tools for the basics , but i may not be applying them properly .

I do believe that it may be the wood or the potting soil thats releasing the tannins , I hope it clears out soon . I will continue with my water changes .

 

Yeah - it sounds like you are off to a good start, now it's just fine tuning from here!

Its tough to say exactly what you should do as there are many factors involved in getting something that works for you going. Some thoughts on your questions:
- I definitely suggest you read this article: https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/15-6-2-kh-ph-co2-relationships/
- For a Kh Test kit most seem to like the Salifert ones but there are many around. Most seem to recommend a kh level of 5.
- Once you can test ph and kh then you can figure out your bubble rates for CO2 to maintain the required CO2 saturation. My guess is 4-6 per second based on your tank but again it depends on your ph/kh values that you start with.
- Personally I don't worry about lights suddenly coming on and scaring the fish and your tannin problem will more than likely resolve within the next month or so too. What is more important here is that your lights are at the right intensity (plants grow stalky and less dense if too dim, you get algae if too bright).
- There are a wide range of fertilizers out there, look for a complete daily fertilizer. Holes in your plants mean that something is missing, algae means you're using too much.

Here's what I do in my aquarium for reference (Juwel Rio 180):
1. CO2 runs at 2.5/3 bubbles per second from 09:00 to 18:00
2. Lights (I use the Chihiros WRGB2 Slim) run from 10:00 to 19:00. I recently switched to this light as I noticed my plants were growing quite stalky.
3. Daily fertilization with Scape Complete - 3ml (Don't make the same mistake as I did - I used the Scape Trace and Potassium daily with the Complete until I realized it was too much due to the algae)
4. I use ADA Aquasoil - I can't say how it compares to your soil unfortunately.
5. My kH is less than 1 at last test - probably closer to 0.5. I think most aquarists would recommend 5-7 kh.
6. pH goes from 6.1ish - 5.6ish (I've been without a pH test kit the past 2 weeks and just received my pH pen). It was 5.60 at the lowest measured level today.
7. The value for CO2 at 0.5 kh and ph 5.6 isn't on the chart in the article but it is roughly 37.7ppm based on the calc in the article. If you assume that before CO2 injection the concentration sits at 2ppm and pH at 6.1 - then this means that I inject (37.7 - 11.9) = 25.8ppm of CO2 into the system, and reach a total of 28ppm including the starting CO2 saturation.

I depart from the majority view here that pH should not drop below 6.0 and that you should buffer your water with crushed coral to get a higher kH - there's plenty of evidence that planted tanks and livestock can thrive biologically in very soft, low ph settings: https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/ph-kh-gh-tds/ph-explained
https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/p...in-tanks-due-to-aquasoils-softwater-a-concern

It does limit your selection of livestock to some degree - but again I'm of the belief that for most species nitrite and ammonia matter far more than ph and kh parameters as these parameters swing often wildly in their natural habitat across seasons (for this statement we exclude discus and other similarly sensitive fish, and obviously we would not say that you can keep malawis in very acidic, soft water with zero nitrites or ammonia).

Again, I'm relatively new to the planted journey so I am sharing my learnings here as a way to reinforce and question my own knowledge in a public forum. I'd be very keen to hear your opinion on what works after reading and trying your own way of doing things.

Good luck! Keep us updated on your journey!

 

@Fredster

Thank you soo much ! This information is gold! ,

Iv also just purchased a digital PH meter , and it works so well , really makes checking the PH easy compared to the strips and mixing liquids , trying to match the color to a chart etc .
Thanks so much for the articles , I will start reading them . They seem really interesting and informative .

I tested the PH now 23:22 and it was at 7.56 .

Regarding the soil , Honestly , I would have loved to use the proper aquarium soil , but the cost was crazy , especially for this size of a tank . I had asked a few friends and some older people , did a little bit of reading online and figoured out this is what many used before ADA and such were around , It was cheap so I tried it out . Its my first time adding this soil to the tank . I do have a bucket of Tetra plant complete substrate that I purchased a long time ago , and it seems to be a mix of pool filter sand , this potting soil , some polystyrene balls and what to me looks like garden sand . So the potting soil I think comes close .

I read that this can cause an Ammonia spike as well , and that I should cap it with lots of Pool filter sand or poke it now and then. To counter this , I heavily saturated it with water , rinsed it out , placed them in those net bags and layed them on the plastic grids that I have on the glass , then covered it with Pool filter sand . I placed the Dr tank balls in the sand , Oh i forgot to mention , I also added red potting clay balls in the net bags with the potting soil , I got this from a nursery . Im told this is good for the plants , and it helps with Iron. It was also really cheap so I figured why not .

How does one properly measure the bubble count? that thing moves so Fast , im kind of taking a best guess approach in saying that its 2 - 3 bubbles per second , it may be more .

The holes on some of the plant leaves were there from when I purchased the plants from the pet shop , I will trim those out soon , Some of the plants did melt , Although what im seeing now is melt at the bottom on one specific plant type and growth at the top . The others seem to be ok .

I do see new roots forming on some plants , the anubus that's on the wood has a few new small leaves and some new white roots going down .

I see what looks like algae to me forming on the wood .. I'm a little worried about that , Iv read that the blue light could cause algae issues so for now , Iv disabled the blue and white light so the tank would only have the bright white light and the floodlight.

I will try and get a KH test kit soon .

Regarding the CO2 checker , is that only supposed to give a proper reading after the CO2 has been injected for a while?

Tbh the only fish I have at the moment would be the 2 clown loaches , 2 corys , 1 black tetra and another tetra that I honestly dont know what it is exactly. Im not in any hurry to move them to the big tank again, they seem fine in their smaller tank .

 

Nice setup - why not stabilise the tank and water parameters first before adding the complexity of CO2?
You have no ground covers, still experimenting with lights etc. Potting soil and the PFS cap works great, but it does not like it if you replant things all the time.

Keep posting the progress pictures - great to see how things develop.

Later Ferdie

 

Thanks @f-fish !

I honestly thought I had to add the CO2 as soon as I had the plants in the sand. When does one usually start the CO2 in a planted tank?

I have seen that if you use potting soil and Pool filter sand in a tank ,placing the potting soil loose at the bottom and the Sand ontop of it , that replanting and pulling out plants would cause the potting soil to pull up above the Pool filter sand .

In an attempt to mitigate this problem , I have the potting soil packed in net bags and the Pool filter sand on top of it ,I found these plastic like netbags at Pick and Pay for R5 each in the veggie section ( even used them to hold the filter media in the filters) . Im hoping that the roots of the plants find their way into the potting soil , it may also be easier for me to remove the soil from the tank at a later stage if I wish and keep them in place. So far I havnt pulled on a plant but I have moved the sand around and the potting soil is staying in place.

Whats your thoughts on this? Do you think I may still have the problem of the soil coming up at a later stage when it settles, I know that the soil may degrade over time , there are pieces of tree bark in there or wood chippings im not sure exactly what it is ?

Ground cover plants , I planted those hair grass like plants , and another one but they melted .

 

My strategy is:
1. Start the stopwatch and start counting for around 10 seconds - it moves fast.
(Tip - when you hit the teens don't mentally say the full number as it becomes too long, just count the single digit and remember where you are in terms of 10, 20, 30 etc. Alternatively try visualizing the number in your mind.)
2. Take note of bubble count and seconds then do some math to get bubbles per second.
3. Repeat three times and average your result for extra accuracy. If the three individual results are wide apart then you are counting wrong.

Alternatively you can video it with your phone in slow motion, and count the bubbles over 5 seconds of playback. You then just need to account for the difference between normal and slo mo speeds.

Good luck!

 

I take a 10second video and then divide the number by 10. So if it was 40 in 10sec it's 4bps

 

I think this is a clever idea. I agree that the 'proper aquarium soil' is super overpriced.

Otherwise good luck! looks great so far

 

@Rattatou1e Thanks!

The prices are crazy , on a 450litre tank , id be spending over 5k on what to me is basically sand lol

So a small update , the plants seem to be living , I suspect that maybe ammonia may be popping out of the sand? I haven't seen it but I have a suspicion , im not worried though , there are no fish in the tank .
Just wondering if it would settle down and eventually stop?

I have found snails in the tank , and a small worm like creature , im not sure what it is I will take a picture and post it up soon , I managed to catch it and place it in a plastic tub.

Otherwise , I haven't done much to the tank , I have changed the water twice now , and it seems to be improving on the color . I haven't tested the water properly yet , I still need to buy the KH tester .

Will keep you guys updated .

 

The idea about putting the potting soil into netting is clever ... not sure if roots will get into the bag over time, worth the experiment.

CO2 - probably when things have stopped melting and you have plants that really need it ... you also need to get your tank into a well understood state. Unless you like chasing the dragon.

- How about this .. dosing ferts untill the plants have acclimatised is also not the best of ideas, since the added nutrient load can actually stress the plants more.

Plants are amazing things - CO2 fluctuation will stress fish out way more than plants.

The issue with potting soil capped - it just looks a mess when it is disturbed. You can always first move the plants around and then vacuum the bits as part of the normal water change.

Later Ferdie

 

Hi Guys!

So an update ,
Plants haven't died , Some melted and haven't sprung back that well , they are still there but not as many ( the grassy ones at the bottom and the hair grass and the long ones on the right towards the bottom)
Others seem to be growing , I see a lot more roots and leaves on my old Anubis plant , and the two types on the left are in constant need of a trim.

So far , I have done about 4 water changes ,So every alternate week , the water seems to be clearing . Although it does become tea like but not as bad with each change .

I still suspect , but im not sure, ammonia bubbles popping through the surface of the sand from the fertilizer , but its not really that much or that bad , When it bubbles through it brings with it some of the fertilizer to the surface , not much , just the smaller bits.

So all I have done is change the water , trimmed the plants that grow too tall , trimmed dead leaves from plants , and cleaned up dead leaves from the filter intake, I haven't siphoned the sand .
Plants still seem to be living .

I have no Idea what the water conditions are at the moment or if its safe for fish , My fish are still in their smaller tank , they don't seem to mind .

Here are a few pictures . Does anyone see any growth that im not seeing? or Death or problems ?
Some of the leaves seem to have holes , im not sure if this is from melt or if it was there or if its a new problem ? I haven't added any fertilizer at all .

 

You tank is looking very good for so early on - have you had any algae at all? No diatoms or such?

Holes in the leaves indicate some form of nutrient deficiency - usually potassium for most plants. It also appears as if there is yellowing between the veins of the one plant, which may mean an iron deficiency.

I would consider adding liquid fertiliser. For reference, in my tank I’m using Scape Complete plus Scape Trace and K (Potassium) plus weekly Seachem Iron supplements. However I have a significantly higher plant load relative to you - so you can get away with less fertiliser (like only using Scape Complete).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Hi Fredster!

I did find some creatures in the tank ,

I now have lots of snails , No idea how im going to get rid of those .
I found a strange worm like creature that I managed to catch and place in a tub , its been in there for two weeks now . I haven't seen any others since . Can anyone Identify what it is?
I also find these things crawling on the glass , Tiny white like creatures as per the picture .

I have seen the Scape sold at the pet shop in Hillcrest , will visit them again and purchase some .
I did place those Iron pottery balls in the substrate for Iron intake for the plants , as well as Dr Tank Powerballs in there as well .

But the snails , there are so many lol I think they came in with the plants .

 

Algae , Cant say I have , there was some kind of Algae that appeared on some of the plants and the wood , Looked like a spongy kind of algae , it has mostly disappeared , The Glass has a thin film of what I assume is algae . I have been monitoring it though .