First South African Tiger Endler hybrids

Hi Guys,

A while back we had a discussion about crosses between normal guppies and Endler guppies and that these crosses are now producing very pretty new colour forms. Well internationally this wave as continued unabated in Guppy clubs and forums. In the thread, I told you that I had crossed Spaten Gold guppies with Endlers in order to start a strain of Tiger Endlers and I wanted to show you how far I have got with this project.

Firstly, this is what Spaten Gold guppies look like, they have a brilliant body colouration due to carrying the platinum gene and the snakeskin gene. My original fishes came from Tyrone Genade.



I then crossed a male Spaten Gold with a female Endler of the following type:



In the first generation (F1) crosses all the males looked very similar, which one would expect from such a cross and they looked like this. However, I was surprised to see how different they were to either of their parent strains. Similar colour forms are also described by Swamp River Endlers from the same cross and they call them "Blue Tuxedo Neons" Page 3) Hybrid Endlers Livebearer .





Continued on next post

 

However, in the next generation (F2) now in which I am breeding these fishes with each other, the first true Tiger Endlers as they are referred to are appearing. I now have three almost adult males and I show pics of these below. There are more young Tiger Endlers appearing amoungst the young as well. In order to get these to breed true I am still going to have to do quite a lot of selection, but at least the first ones are appearing.










I think these will make an exciting new addition to the SA guppy scene.

Enjoy!

Dirk

 

They are beautiful. Congratulations Dirk!

 

Congrats Dirk. They are outstanding. Do you have any other cross strains?

 

Simply magnificent

 

Shoooo that third one looks amazing...

 

Hi @Dirk

Excellent work! They look amazing and not far from that photo you sent me recently.
Do you think the next generation will breed true to this?
Im interested to know what your next step will be? Will you breed them to each other or back to the parent lines?

Rgds

Marco

 

impressive, nice project, cant wait to seee the finished strain!!

 

Hi @Dirk,

They look awesome! Very interesting project.

 

I know that first F1 wasn't your aim - but WOW! "Blue tuxedo neons" do it for me!

 

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the compliments, much appreciated.

Marco, you ask about the next step. Well it means that you have to understand something about the genetics of Spatens. They carry the Platinum gene on the Y chromosome and the snakeskin gene on the X gene. This means that males, being XY have a combination of the X carried snakeskin gene and the Y carried platinum gene.

In the first generation (F1) crosses, the males, these Tuxedos, carry the platinum gene on their Y chromosome, but they do not carry the snakeskin gene, because Endlers do not carry that gene.

In the first generation (F1) females, they carry snakeskin gene on their one X chromosome and the Endler X gene on the other chromosome.

In the next generation, which we call the F2, the F1 females transfer either the X chromosome carrying the snakeskin gene or the Endler X gene to their progeny. In the male offspring this will mean they will have an Endler X or snakeskin X in combination with the platinum Y. The combination of X snakeskin and Y platinum gives the same combination as in the Spaten, but with other Endler genes and it is this combination that will give the Tiger Endler males. The males with an Endler X gene and a platinum Y gene will give Tuxedo males again.

The F2 females will either have 2 Endler X genes or one Endler X and one snakeskin X.

Once you cross the Tiger Endlers with the females that have an Endler X and a snakeskin X then the females that you get will be either an Endler X snakeskin X combination or a snakeskin X combined with a snakeskin X female. Once you have these snakeskin only females and you cross them with Tiger Endler males all offspring will contain the snakeskin X genes and then you will have true breeding Tiger Endlers.

So what I need to do is to remove all Tuxedo males (to remove the Endler X genes) and to only breed with Tiger Endler males and to them breed them back with the females and then check the offspring of each female individually (in other words, one tank per female). If the offspring are only Tigers then she does not carry the normal Endler X and only the snakeskin X which will result in truebreeding Tigers, but if she breeds Tuxedos then she still carries the normal Endler gene and is therefore not capable of breeding true Tigers.

This means that I must breed two more generations before I can say that I have a true breeding strain, but it does not mean that I cannot start selling the Tiger offspring.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Nice fish Dirk. I really like the first generation F1 males. Very cool colour and pattern combination.

 

Hi Tracy and Marc,

Yes, the first generation crosses, the Tuxedos, certainly are attractive, see two more pics below. What I am amazed about is how they can vary the black colour, they can make it paler and darker very quickly, don't ask me how. In the older males, they are showing irregular fins extensions which is perhaps less attractive, but this could again be selected against quite easily. These Tuxedos could also be bred true, and there is quite a bit of additional variation amoungst the F2s so I will see if I perhaps have the space to take this project on as well. However, you can rapidly end up having hundreds of tanks if you are breeding guppies, that I can quite easily see.

Kind regards,

Dirk



Two young males showing differences in black intensity



An older male showing fin extensions

 

Excellent pioneering work!!
A great accomplishment for South africa and TaSA.

 

Hi @Dirk,

Thank you for that explanation. I had to write it out for myself but I understand and it makes complete sense. It similar to an explanation I found in a genetics journal Ive been trying to study.

Its interesting that these colours when combined actually lead to the tigers, Id never have guessed it would turn out that way. Its quite remarkable.

Another question - Theoretically, once the Tiger strain is now established, it comes from quite a small gene-pool. How long can this gene pool be bred with before adding new genes become nescessary. I know in Guppys its almost endless, but once it becomes nescessary, will that result in complete disruption of the genes, or can one still maintain the general line by adding something to this to just widen the gene pool. Or, will it be advisable to for instance use again an unrelated Tuxedo for new blood?

Kind regards

Marco

 

Thanks for the info on the tuxedos Dirk. Nice addition if you have a bit of space to breed them true.

 

SwampRiverAquatics.com
also some nice crosses.

 

Congrats Dirk. They are looking awesome!