fed up newby

Hi to everyone
i am new to aquariums ,and decided that i want discus in my tank.every time i visit a fish store they tell me to buy this and that but nobody can give me a clear answer to what really to do. I have wasted a couple of thousand rand now on equipment and chemicals that i proberly don't need.
Is there anyone in or around pretoria/centurion that i can talk to or maybe visit to help me on the right track with discus fish.
help will be much appreciated...thanks

 

@Marco can assist

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Hi, and welcome to TASA.
Sent you a PM.

 

Hi there

Welcome to TASA.

I think so many people have been in your shoes and results in most of the ads we see for equipment going for sale.

I would advise you to do your own research first. Read, read and read some more on this forum. You are new to the hobby so I would advise you to understand how freshwater filtration works. Get to know the nitrogen cycle. Plan your system based on your desired setup. ON that note, you have decided to go with Discus. IMO this is a bit hectic for someone just starting out in the hobby. I know that there are many fish keepers out there who say that discus are easy to keep. But most of them who say this are very experienced in keeping them. I just mean that its not the ideal species to start out with.

To answer your question, go and see one of our Sponsors, Dorry Pets. Im sure you will get good advice from them. Or else you can speak to the Discus guru's on here. Speak to @Marco or @BoelderBeestie . Marco has been in the game for a while and Boelderbestie has recently just has success in breeding discus. These guys are not the only experienced guys here but the only ones I can think of now.

 

Morning, and welcome to TASA.

I agree with @norman777 . Personally, Discus in my mind is more advance than any other tropical fish keeping. A few years back I also got done in by a Pet shop, so much that I even almost didn't want to fish tank anymore. Imagine they sold me a 2ft starter kit with 13 gold fish, they supposedly survive like that in their tanks so should do "Well" if I did the same.

Long story short, I did some research with a friend @Ortaega , started watching you-tube videos and reading books.

Finally decided on what tank I wanted and started my setup, today I am still happy with what I have and continue improving and changing the tank to what my needs are.

Point of the short story is, rather first do some research before taking up something like Discus. As mentioned before, Keeping discus is more advance than just adding water, adding a filter and watching the glory.(on top of that they are extremely expensive as well)

 

Hi @Leon_385

First off forget what the stores have told you, especially regarding chemicals to modify the water parameters. Here's a quick "how to" that will get you going in the right direction.

Tank size depends if you are going to go with one tank or a grow out and then later a display, I'm going to assume you are going the one tank route so the ideal size would be 1.5m or bigger.

With stocking the tank, 6 minimum but 12-16 would be better depending on the budget.

Filtration wise you don't need anything fancy, I use a relatively low powered canister filter and a corner filter(TF-300) for a backup and a aerator for surface agitation. Use a sponge on your intakes to keep food and feces out of the filters.

Water parameters is not that important as one might think as long as it's stable if you are only going to keep them and not breed, the babies actually like the water a little bit harder than what is used for breeding. One thing that is critical with them is that the water must be clean, very clean. You do this with frequent water changes, I do a WC daily to keep the nitrates down. So a Ph of 6-7.8 is fine(mine is 6.5), nitrites always 0 and nitrates <5 but less is better. Temp 29C. I actually like seeing a little bit of nitrate as then I know my filters are doing their job.

You will have to invest in a aging barrel so that you can age, aerate and heat your water for at least 24 hours to get the ph from swinging. Tap water contains CO2 that makes the ph drop and as the CO2 gets depleted the buffer in the water will raise it again. In winter time you can see the gas forming in a tank when you do a WC as bubbles will be everywhere on the glass, it also forms on the gills of fish and discus gets stressed by this. They will shake their heads and dart in bad cases. After about 24 hours the ph will settle and the water can be used.

If your tap water is hard say 8 and above use RO water to cut the water in the aging barrel to bring it down, DON'T use a chemical as all this will bring it down and once the acid is depleted the buffer will raise it again. You will add more and more and after a while the buffer is depleted and your ph will drop to the ground killing everything. Remember that hardness is a result of dissolved minerals so we need to get rid of these to make the water softer so cut with RO, the ph will follow. Don't do it the other way around, you want to take out, not add anything.

Feeding is very important with youngsters, the normal flakes and such you get from the store won't do it. Marco can help you get the right foods for your fish. You can make your own as well. I make a ostrich fillet mix that they love, it's just fillet, prawn and a granule food with a pinch of fresh garlic all grated up and placed in a ziplock, pressed flat and frozen. With this I feed benkers royal and a granule food with a bit of bloodworm every now and then. Bloodworm isn't necessary but they really like it so I feed it. The more they eat the better for me and them. Feed the little ones 5 times or more a day, they must eat constantly. Mine is the morning before work, directly afterwards and then till I go to bed I'll feed every second hour or so and this works out to 5-6 feedings.

Cleaning, you have to clean the tank daily and siphon out all the feces and leftover foods. This is critical in keeping the water bacteria free and in good condition. I take out about 30% daily while doing this and on weekends I do one 90%+ water change to get back to zero. Remember that each tank is different so you might do more or you might do less, water volume, stock levels and feeding plays a part in this but the more clean water you give the better.

Finding your fish, this is important as you don't want unhealthy and stunted fish to start off with. With all the hard work it's not worth it to try and save some discus from the petshop. Unfortunately it is what it is. Buying from a local breeder is the safest option as you can get all your fish at once and don't need to quarantine. If you get fish from different places even some from different tanks in the same store you need to quarantine as some my carry a pathogen that it self is immune too but the fish from the tank next to it is not. Doing this correctly is also critical but I'm not going into this now. So don't buy randoms from shops and rather stick to fish from people who specialize in discus.

So to make a long story short here's the points that must be followed.

1. Clean water and tank environment.
2. Good diet and lots of feedings.(Don't worry about overfeeding, it's near impossible with discus.)
3. Stable water parameters.

On a side note, don't try and grow juveniles out in a tank with substrate or gravel. Go bare bottom, this will save you a LOT of work and headache. It might look ugly but after a few months when your discus have put on some weight you won't even see the tank anymore. You can always add a thin layer of sand later when they are adults and not so sensitive anymore.

To the Discus guys, if I missed anything or got anything wrong please correct me as I've had only one cup of coffee so far haha.

 

Hi Leon,

If discus is what you want to keep, and if you can afford the time and effort to give them proper care, then don't be discouraged by one or two failures. Discus are not impossible to keep by a long margin, and they are not difficult either. A better way to put it is to say that they are demanding of time and attention. If you can give them that, then they are actually easy to keep.

In your shoes I would maybe try the following. Get a maintenance deal from one of the main aquarium specialists, for a while. See how they do things, learn from them, and then fly on your own. The guys I would contact first are Dorry Pets, but there are other people who may recommend different experts. Since I don't know where you live, it may not be feasible for you, but if it is, I think the money will be well spent.

A few other thoughts:
i) For discus, it is very, very helpful to have an RO setup with a barrel or jojo tank where you can make up water for regular water changes. You can use aged tap water if the supply is stable and of high quality. Otherwise, you can use RO which is mineral supplemented. Pure RO is not good for fish, since they need minerals to built bone etc. WC daily if you can, or bi-daily otherwise.
ii) Buy only the best quality fish available, even if you have to wait a long while to get hold of them. Avoid stunted or diseased fish at all cost, and do not ever buy fish that you find in between the standard fare in an LFS.
iii) Keep the tank bottom bare, so you can easily clean it with a siphon. Doing discus in a planted tank or a community aquarium means you are going to compromise on the temperature and water conditions at the expense of the discus. In the wild, discus live in rivers that have almost no aquatic plants (but plenty of sunken trees and tree roots).
iv) Have patience. Success will come.

@BoelderBeestie has covered 90% of the rest, I think.

 

All the advice you have received so far is perfect. I have tried Discus and did not pull it off. Listen and take to hart what you heard being mentioned above.

I will suggest the following, not knowing anything about your experiance with fish keeping. Start with baby steps. Jumping in on the deep end with Discus might discourage you, due to the maintanance which must be done, that you might want to give up on it at all. Start with basic easy fish. Learn about water chemestry, maintanance of your tank and hardware, tank cycling etc. Learn the basics, learn and get the hang of it, learn some more. You will never know enough.

Please don't take this as discouraging. One day you will have you display tank with awesome Discus in them. I dream of having a massive Discus tank but I know myself well enough to know that I will kill them in the long run. Take your time and gain knowledge, the Discus will be there when you are ready.

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Yes @Reedfish. Unfortunately they need daily care and a lot of work. Don't forget about the sleepless nights when something goes wrong either, I had many of those.

The worst part for me is that when you spend a year and a half growing them out they can't be replaced if something happens. That worries me quite a bit. All it takes is one screwup...

When I found my tank temp at 24c when my heater broke my heart stopped for a second or two. Luckly they are all fine.

But when I'm done working on them for the day and stand back and get that nice warm feeling of happiness and pride it's all worth it.

 

Here is something that could help. I have had Discus and have had no problem besides feeding blood worm which was off and not knowing, lost 6 Discus, but other than that, no problems at all:

http://www.discusfish.in/about-discus.html

http://diskuszucht-stendker.de/en/Diskus-Handbuch/ - one of the best reading materials on Discus.

Kind regards

 

Ah nice catch blade on the bloodworm. I had a pack that was off once too. Luckly it was so vrot you could smell it in china. Now I always smell any frozen food to check if its ok.

 

Hi and welcome to the forum..

You have been given excellent and caring advice so I wont say anything else except... whatever you decide... good luck with your new hobby

As you can see.. plenty help you will get here from all the Discus lovers!!!

 

Thanks to everyone replied
all i can say is WOW, i really didn't expect such a big response from people who are willing to help ( i should have asked for the winning number for the up coming lotto draw)
I had a big falling out with MAJESTIC PETS in centurion today and they are the reason why i'm on the verge of pulling the plug on the hole hobby, after they have taken me for yet another R1350 ride.I feel sorry for all the other fish store owners out there but people like me( new comers to the hobby) go to the stores and expect help and the correct info on the products that you sell.That is the reason why i went there in the first place.
Does any one know if the owner of Dorrys pets is active on this forum ?

once again many thanks for all the help and info from you guys..much appreciated.

P.S ...to the discus owners , what is your take on keeping discus and german blue rams together ?

 

Welcome to TASA ... if the current flood of info is overwhelming then do not dare to search for some past posts ...

google
site:tropicalaquarium.co.za marco discus
site:tropicalaquarium.co.za dirk discus
site:tropicalaquarium.co.za discus guide
site:tropicalaquarium.co.za discus rams

.... you get the idea.

As for LFS owners, our google phd's have made us infinitely more educated, few these days are any better than your local GP who seems to be following the advise of a recently visiting pharma rep when you walk in with a life threatening toe fungus ... or was that an OTC TV commercial?

Best thing you can do for your own sanity is stop thinking of the NOW cost of the hobby, start looking at the long term pleasures you are investing in today. Make time in your day to get lost in your tanks - say hello MTS, in the end it is worth every minute of frustration. Unless of course, you not doing all this effort for your own sanity - then learn how to use gumtree ASAP.

Later Ferdie

PS - the hobby, like this site and people on the forums are very cyclical best you find your own rhythm and reason to stay in it.
PS2 - mileage varies on how active any of the LFS owners are on the forums, best phone the store if you need / want to talk to anybody.

 

Hey

Enough has been said.
Im just posting to say "Hi" so as not to seem to ignore the mention

Leon - all Id like to stress 1 thing which has already been said - do not buy sickly stunted fish. Ever. It will just demotivate you.
If you have healthy well raised fish from the start it just makes keeping them easier.
You do not want to have to medictae from day one. Its suppose to be fun

Kind regards

Marco

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Hang in there.
Many of us started with a BOOM instead of a BANG.
Once you're sorted any problems you may have now will fade in to a distant memory.

 

I'm active on this forum and this one only and I'm not going anywhere. Any help I can give I will so feel free to ask, if it's something you don't want to post publicly you can PM and we can exchange numbers and use whatsapp. Everyone I've met in person and whatsapp from this forum are very nice people and we all have the same interest, so the more people you know the better.

Discus keeping is South Africa is still in it's infancy with very few really dedicated people and one of my goals is to get more people involved in Discus so we can also produce nice fish in our own country and make it affordable. We must be on such a level that we must be able to trade fish for breeding and so forth and have more of a community vibe.

Regards to your question about the Rams, I say no. a Discus tank is a Discus tank in my opinion, the rams are replaceable from multiple sources the discus aren't. You will see what I mean after year of grow out. If something goes wrong you don't want too many variables to troubleshoot. If you have other tanks in the house don't use the same tools in your Discus tank either and wash your hands every time you are going to get wet and when handling food. Keep it clean and keep it simple is the main things to consider.

And never give up. The first step will be to get the tank running and cycled and while this is taking place you can start looking at what types you want to keep and all the different strains that's out there. Also start saving for a purchase of 6 minimum, the more the better.

Post a pic or 2 of your setup...

 

The only fish I have heard work well long term are farlowella catfish. They are completely passive and don't suck slime afaik.

Good luck

 

I will start off by saying listen to the man, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say: it should be fine to keep Rams with Discus IF. Now the IF part is imo the most important. If you get Discus and Rams from a breeder like @Marco as he is a perfectionist with his breeding. You have a big tank which is over filtered, and you do you maintanance. Just remember that Rams are teritorial, they will stand up to the Discus to protect their area. All of this said I will rather have smaller fish with Discus, eg Tetras. Ecsept when you have wild caught Discus, then there is NO exception to it.

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