Experiment: Greenwater - 3 tank compare

Below 3 tanks used to get a better understanding of greenwater growth.


The setup:
1) all plants (java moss) and decor are from that same donor tank
2) all tanks left clean and dry for a week before setup
3) water used was mixed in a single container with all decor and plants in it, then divided amongst the 3 tanks - so same seeding
4) no filtration or aeration
5) no feeding
6) no fish

Tank 3 - no plants, no decor
Tank 2 - 20% plant volume of tank1, decor: stone, terracotta pot and driftwood
Tank 1 - 1 side covered with java moss, decor: driftwood

Observation:
Week 1
Tanks 3 has that typical greenwater look
Tank 2 crystal clear
Tank 1 crystal clear

Week 2
Tank 3's greenwater still the same
Tank 2 starting to develop a slight greenwater colour
Tank 1 crystal clear

Comments:
Tank 2 has significantly less purling vs Tanks 1 having loads of bubbles from the moss wall so the water must be well oxygenated.
All three tanks have a healthy population of mosquito larvae.

Why do the experiment? Was trying to see the roll plants play in avoiding greenwater.

I'll let it sit for another week -see if anything else changes.

Later Ferdie

 

+1 for experiment. I would like to see it over time

 

Very nice. Did you feed the mozzie larvae to your fishies?

 

@Firefly - nope not yet, I want to leave the 3 tanks untouched for the duration of the experiment. I have another tank that has a failed PFP substrate that is as green as grass with loads of larvae so I grab from that on weekends.

Later Ferdie

 

@ f-fish,shouldn't you first establish what causes the green water in the first place,and then what prevents it?
The reason I'm asking is because I had a green water algae bloom in my fully planted,that is 70-80% of the substrate covered,tank.
Only cure was a 4 day black out.
I'm just asking.

 

@Rudi - valid question. Only greenwater I can recall having was in tanks that I left unattended outside. My curiosity was peaked when I killed a greenwater tank that I had running in the fishroom. It was started during last summer but moved indoors for the winter. The tank did ok during the winter with a 30 watt tube but all went south when I added moss to the tank.

So your comment is actually valid input Rudi ... maybe it is not only the plant density but also the type of plants or rather % moss that plays its part.

I would think that one could induce greenwater with excessive fertz and/or light.

Later Ferdie

 

@ f-fish,so you killed the green water by adding the moss?
Were the moss tied to something,or did you leave it floating?
High light and excess ferts will never cause an algae bloom.Why do I say this?Even now I run my planted tank on high light and allot of ferts.For almost a year I've had no algae related problems.Only when my CO2 diffuser broke,did thread algae rear it's ugly head.Conclusion:deficiency do cause algae.When the plants struggle,algae can get a foot hold.
My own green water was induced by my stupidity.I,foolishly,poked around in the substrate of a uncycled tank.In doing so, some ammonia was released from the substrate and even a small trace of ammonia,so small even that it is undetectable by your test kit,will cause a bacteria bloom and then green water.
Often when green water is induced in a planted tank,the ferts and lights get the blame.
You can help your experiment along and add some household ammonia to one of the tanks and see what happens.Only a small dose should do the trick.
I've read that fast growing plants,usually floating plants,can cure green water.The theory is the plants will absorb the ammonia and block some light,but when I tried it,it didn't work,probably because the bloom was to advanced and has adapted to using the nutrients meant for the plants.
Anyway,this is a great experiment,not many people induces algae on purpose to find possible causes and cures.

 

"so you killed the green water by adding the moss? Were the moss tied to something,or did you leave it floating?"
Yeap moss was floating and tied ... but then the moss started to die and the tank went bad - not green water wet compost smell - but bad decomposition rotten egg smell.

"High light and excess ferts will never cause an algae bloom." Hmm ok suppose it depends on what fetz you use.. with my tub of 3:1:6 or 6:20:30 I am sure to be able to get something green if I leave it in the sun.

"Conclusion:deficiency do cause algae.When the plants struggle,algae can get a foot hold." Agree ..

"poked around in the substrate of a uncycled tank.In doing so, some ammonia was released from the substrate" Now this is an interesting thought ... cycled or uncycled ... I have often wondered. If we stop poking around in our tanks if things will not work better. Wonder if people have noticed - do they have more algae problems if they do regular gravel vacuums or less if the just leave the tank so that is can find its balance.

"Anyway,this is a great experiment,not many people induces algae on purpose to find possible causes and cures." ja - probably not scientific enough to make a real discovery - still it is fun.

Later Ferdie

 

The tank was not cycled,although the filter was mature,the substrate was all new.The substrate will always take longer to cycle.
If your moss covered the surface of the tank,you could have effectively been doing a blackout of sorts.The rotten egg smell could very well have been the dead algae decomposing and giving off hydrogen sulfide.That will kill plants.
On the ferts,it depends how much ammonia is in them.Garden fertilizer is not the same as aquarium fertilizer.Many garden fertilizers uses ammoniacal nitrogen as a Nitrogen source.
I only lightly vacuum the substrate surface,but usually can't get in between the thicker planted areas.In high teck,heavily planted tanks,it is recommended to remove as much mulm,poo and un eaten food as possible, to prevent the waste from rotting and releasing ammonia.
If I think about it,all the maintenance I do,i.e.filter cleaning,substrate vac,removing dead or damaged leaves and water changes,is to prevent ammonia spikes.
Maybe poor tank maintenance can be linked to algae blooms?Makes you think.

 

This is a cool experiment, I'm surprised to see the evaporation in the tanks seems to be different as well.

 

Week 3
Tanks 3 is significantly less green than the previous week
Tank 2 is now about the same green density as the what tank 3 was last week
Tank 1 still crystal clear

(Disclaimer - I am a tad colour dumb / blind (but these still looks green to me ;-) )


So what next for these 3 tanks?
Follow Rudi's idea and add some fertz (will be done to all 3 tanks) ? see what I can push to get both tank 3 and 2 the "same green" then swap decor and plants between tank 1 and 3 and see if tank 3 clears and tank 1 becomes grass. Anybody else have some ideas? I am not that keen on adding fish in this experiment.

Later F

 

Hey Ferdie,why not add a drop or 1ml of household ammonia to all three tanks?You'll find it at the local grocery store,in the washing detergent section.

 

@Rudi - Done .. 1 drop of scrubbs cloudy ammonia added to each tank.

 

Two day in update ... did the ammonia thing - It looks like it has the opposite affect .. - i.e. both tank 3 and 2 are busy clearing and tank 1 is still crystal clear.

Now I am wondering - should I not be adding additional supplements to get these guys green again? Think fish food would do it .. but would rather add some 6:20:30 that also has some trace elements?

What you think ... add more ammonia or go for the fertz mix ?

Later Ferdie

 

What about some DIY CO2 to each tank?

 

Thats very disappointing,I was hoping for some nice pea-soup.
A friend used to make green water for daphnia,by dropping a bag of chicken doo-doo in a big water container.Apparently it never failed.
Now if you think about it,the chicken "stuff" is full of urea and there for ammonia,but it also contains phosphates,allot.

What if you added some phosphates,some Lenolax fleet enema will do,to the tank.Give it a bit of a boost.
BOOO-HA-HA said the mad scientist.

---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

Don't know,what will this cause?

 

Do household amonia contain only amonia don't a lot of cleaners also contain
a type of algicide?

---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

What lights do you have over the tanks or do they get sunlight?

 

Some cheap ferts might give you the green you're looking for

 

Vis - hmm know access to CO2 other than some happy-life happycarbo .. let me think about that one. Tanks get direct sunlight 3 - 4 hours a day in the afternoon. Scrubbs is 8% ammonia in a water solution no algicide.
Rudi - now where do I find a chicken this time of the day?
TankMaster - ferts it is .. 500ml water - added 5g of Orchid Mixture 2 (loads left over from my PFP dabbling) adding 10 ml of the solution to each tank.

Failing the above I'll need to look into the urine idea - 4 possible sources listed in order of probable use:Human, dog, fish or cat. Hey if DBN will pay for collections of this untapped fert maybe it is the future.

Thanks guys - input appreciated

Later Ferdie

 

http://www.bka.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=276

Maybe you can get some ideas here.