Discus fish

Discussion in 'RSS Feeds' started by Sagren, Oct 3, 2019.

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Hi im new to the group. My name is nivashini and i have discus fry. I have 10 of them they are 4 mon

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  1. BoelderBeestie

    BoelderBeestie

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    What else could have stopped the flagellates then?
     
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  3. BoelderBeestie

    BoelderBeestie

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    @Marco

    You are making work haha. Here's my water parameters.

    My no3, under 10ppm
    20191009_162316.jpg

    My TDS
    20191009_162505.jpg

    My pH
    20191009_162529.jpg

    And the amount of shells I need to stop it from dragging into the ground.
    20191009_162543.jpg

    If you are still skeptical, look me up next time you're in Cape Town and I'll show you.
     
  4. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Wesley, you are wandering off in a direction I certainly fail to understand
    Let me remind you that it was I who helped you better manage water in order to prevent the deformities you were having with your Discus fry.

    I certainly understand the basics of RO water, ph and the relationship between carbonate and ph stability.
    I assure you this has been done since the heydays, so there is no need to invoke the powers of GreySkull for applying the method, nor attempt to name drop pseudo-discus 'experts' such as Discus Hans in an attempt to add value to your position.
    Hans professes that Stendker Discus are the best discus available in the world... can anything he says after that be taken seriously?

    This was however not in any way or by any means what I was contesting.

    So let me strongman my argument so we can get back to the crux of the matter

    You said that-
    -You treated flagellates "the way nature does."
    And that this entailed lowering the ph of your fish tank, only by means of the nitrogen cycle to a ph level of 3, and then returned it to a higher level, over a period of 3 weeks, and that the low ph killed the flagellates inside the gut of the fish.

    This was your statement. This was what I contested.

    My argument is that:
    -Seeing that the low ph water will not reach the gut of the fish, it will have no effect on the flagellate population. This is not an opinion, its fact.
    That basically renders your entire argument and everything that follows moot

    Unless you propose that by some miracle your discus drink water and it bypasses the stomach and goes straight to the gut?

    My next argument is that the nitrogen cycle will not be able to drop tank water to a ph of 3. Even if that water has a tds level of zero ppm. Its just not going to happen.
    It certainly does not happen in the amazon, and so again, its not the way nature does it.

    I then even cited the example of the acid lake in Asia where leeching hydrogen sulfide pushes the lake water down to a ph of 3.5-3.8 Its the only place in the world where fish live in a ph that low. (apart from apparently your tank?)

    Again, this is fact - research it, its not an anecdotal mambo-jambo opinion.

    You have since been doing semantic gymnastics in an attempt to manipulate the discussion, and are now even trying to turn it into a water maintenance 101 course to distract from the key issues.
    I certainly do not see the point of that, as it is not I but you who fail to understand the basics you are now trying to explain.

    This is derailing completely.
    I reiterate my concern that making unscientific, nonsense statements about changing ph to ludicrous low levels as a means to control parasites is a dangerous and irresponsible thing to do.
    I also maintain that I base this not on an opinion, but on an understanding of the basic physiology of freshwater fish.







    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
     
  5. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Usori

    There is a link to the lake i was referring to. It is in Japan

    You still maintain your bio filter can do what seeping hydrogen sulfide does?

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
     
  6. BoelderBeestie

    BoelderBeestie

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    @Marco

    I never said 3. Lowest I got was 3.61. I never said in the gut of the fish, I said it stops them from reproducing or at least that's my opinion I draw from what I saw as nothing else worked except when I lower the pH.

    You are still arguing with me about the pH after I showed you my parameters and invited you to my home to check it yourself. I gave you numbers, I gave you proof, if I removed those shells the tank will sit under pH 4 before the weekend just from nitrification. The filter I designed can do this cleanly.

    Yes you did teach me a lot and I'm very grateful for that. The thing that is eating away at me is why you would think that I would lie to you, I can't lie to you, you know way more than me so it would be impossible. I actually thought that you would be happy that I'm running things without chemicals, the way you always advocated. All I want to do is help and improve the hobby, nothing else. You are breaking things down instead of building up with your negativity.

    I'm not a scientist so my methods and conclusions won't be up to scientific standards but I'm seeing results and trying to understand why. I want to work with you not against you.

    You keep on and on about how people are ruining the hobby for you, you ruined it for yourself.

    And Marco, white feces, getting dark, eating very little if any, losing weight, sitting in corners, what does that to a fish, gut parasites is it not? It work 5 times in a row counting me, 5 times.......

    But ja you are impossible to work with.
     
  7. FINS

    FINS FINS

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    I rest my Case . !!!:tt2:
     
  8. Marco

    Marco Retired Moderator

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    Dear Wesley,

    In this single post you contradict yourself by saying that you learned from me and then that I am impossible to work with
    Make up your mind.
    Its been a similar trend throughout this debate, and thats why we now end up with you appealing to emotional terrorism to discredit

    Please read my last post again so that you can read what I am saying and take it in. If it makes no sense and you still feel I am barking up the wrong tree, re-read your posts again.

    YOU said water enters the gut easily
    YOU said low ph water stops reproduction of flagellates, which takes place in the gut of the fish
    YOU said that the process of lowering ph to 3.6 and back up took 3 weeks
    Even after i shared with you a link to the lake in Japan that has a ph at that level due to acid seepage.

    So, my conclusion is that, I may well be hard to work with TO YOU because you are too obtuse and stubborn to see that no matter what your belief in this is, science is fact
    This is not religion.

    You proclaim to want to help and improve the hobby, but can not see the risks of making unscientific, opinion based statements which are totally contradictory to the health and improvement of the hobby.
    If me being uncomfortable and against that makes me hard to work with, well then I will be hard to work with only to those whose ego is too large too see the problem in their approach

    To advocate that I am negative is just a childish appeal to emotional blackmail.

    Wesley, I also never stated that people are ruining the hobby for me. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I said people annoy me. Thats 2 different things altogether.
    To arrogantly say I ruined the hobby for myself - well dude, there is no way of saying this without running the risk of sounding self congratulatory, but so be it - let me take the risk - have a look at the thread on my fishroom, and then please point out to me how I ruined the hobby for myself.

    Best regards

    Marco



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  9. Reedfish

    Reedfish Moderator

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    I think this thread has run its course.
    Apologies to OP, but I am going to close this now
     
    A new day and Saibot like this.

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