D i y stand shelf ?

Discussion in 'Anything DIY related' started by stormbringer101, Sep 6, 2009.

  1. stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    Evening guys .

    I m wondering if its adviseable or possible to make a steel based stand mounted on the wall. as i have a Huge area above my one tank and I have a old project 1.5mX45x60 that I would love to put above .
    I was thinking .10mm thick L brackets about 10 cm wide all the the way across 3 walls in shape of a U , 100 MM rawl bolts 3 per bracket and 20mm thick sheet of steel all across as a base.
    I figure if one 8mm rawbolt can hold us climbers meters of the ground and take falls and not pull out .surley its puasable to make a shelf like this hold 500+ kgs ??? .
    . pics attached

    060920091907.jpg

    060920091910.jpg
     
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  3. Zoom

    Zoom Retired Moderator

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    The problem isn't whether the rawl bolts will hold the weight... in theory they will... the problem comes in that the brickwork structure is not designed to hold that kind of weight. If it were a solid concrete wall, then yes, I would say go for it... unfortunately bricks are not designed to take "sheer" weight, and over time they will crumble inside.
     
  4. f-fish

    f-fish #unspecified

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    If you made a shelf to fit above the current tank - bolt that into the wall and add some legs with braces to the shelf .. then that should be fine. I am assuming that the tilled slab has extra load capabilities to carry the additional tank + water. Doing that should allow you to reduce the "sheer" weight and the bolts will only be used to stabilize the setup.
     
  5. OP
    stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    thanks .
    I see the point, would 4 legs on the corners be ok and what thickness should they be as i have limited space on the sides ...
     
  6. Bufamotis

    Bufamotis

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    wouldn't something like this work?
    (black is a steel squarepipe frame, triangle bracing)
    (brown being the walls)
    (grey being bolts)

    surely that would have enough soppport for the base, and the downforce would be spread out?

    mockup.jpg
     
  7. OP
    stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    thats what i was thinking but go overkill on bolts and brackets so if one blows theres like 50 others holding it in place .... What if i take tubing up the wall to the slab above call it upsise down legs. .i ve made climbing walls like that that fill a whole double garrage roof and the wieght gets spread out evenly. something like this ..sorry my sketchup skills suc and dimensions are way of but its what i was thinking +_

    shelf.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009
  8. theosmit

    theosmit

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    I'm no expert in building, but my common sense tells me that 500kg between the three walls is not a lot. You shouldn't go ape on the bolts. They won't break easily, it is the brick you need to worry about as Zoom said. 3 on the sides and 5 at the back is starting to get crowded. And remember that a rawl bolt can split a brick very easily if you arent careful.

    In the pic the roof looks like concrete slabs. Not sure if it would be safe to help carrying weight from there...
     
  9. Zoom

    Zoom Retired Moderator

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    In THEORY, having a slab above gives the brickwork added stability. The "problem" comes in that genrally speaking the slab beneath (meaning the ceiling part of a slab) is not where the strength in the design lies. The strength actually lies in the slab above (meaning the floor part of the alsb). It is a general assuption that no structural connections (i.e more than 20kgs) can be attached to the underside of the slab... unless mentioned to the engineer during construction.

    The design you guys have come up with will work in principal... do'nt go too crazy with the rawl bolts, as too many can become a problem too. Drill one hole every second brick or so. I would also caution you against rawl bolts... they are great DIY GIMMICKS... over time they almost ALWAYS pull out. I would rather advise you to look into the chemical anchoring system. Your steel manufacturers say that chemical anchoring is about the same price as a rawl bolt system. I've never compared, and never used the chemical anchor myself... but my sub-contractors all swear by them. Basically drill a 16mm hole... fill the holw with chemical agent (comes in a silicon gun type tube), and stick the (coach screw type) bolt in. As far as I have seen, when this dries, you have to get the angle grinder to get it out.

    Having a further glance at the picture I have noticed other problematic areas. To the right you have a window, and to the left you have a braai. These are what we call "openings" in the building industry... and the moment you have an opening, you have a weakening in the building integrity around that opening. Have you ever noticed that 75% of household settlement cracks happen near a window or door, and generally the crack joins the window opening? Some builders also use to skimp in bricks when building the braai surround, and only build that wall (to the left of your tank) a single skin wall... which will not by structurally sound. You would need to check that out.

    What you want to do is touch-and-go.... it could work, it could end up miserably. If I were you, I would possibly ask an engineer to pop around to have a look. (they usually not cheap tho... but in comparrison to loosing 2 fish tanks????)

    Another silly thing to consider... you do realise that you are going to have to do your weekly maintenance via a step ladder!?

    Although what you are planning on doing, if a nice show-piece aquarium is set up, will look pretty dam marvolous and make a good conversation piece around the braai!

    Keep us updated on what you plan on doing

    P.S... When I say Rawl Bolts are great DIY Gimmicks... I'm not saying they are completely useless. In general, the DIY market have a cheap and nasty drill, drill the 13mm hols... but because the drill is only half as good, the hole comes out at 14mm... and then you land up taking the rawl bolt back to the store calling it a piece of k%$# and wanting a refund on a rawlbolt that just pulled to pieces in your hole. (When I worked at mica, this was a costant).

    In the Industry though, the right toold are available, and when drilling a 13mm hole... you GET A 13mm HOLE. When the right size hole is drilled, and the bolt it not over tightened, (Rather tightened with a torq wrench) then they are fabulous bolts
     
  10. butcherman

    butcherman Administrator

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    how about just making 1 stand to house both tanks one above the other? seems alot safer and simpler
     
  11. OP
    stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    thanks guys ..zoom you know your stuff man .... lucky the bricks are all double as the builder built my place for himself and then took the bigger unit across from me so my place and his seem to be the only units in the complex without problems ,,,go figure.on the glue side I had a bad exp with it a few years back while bolting a climbing route in watervalboven 150m up .once its mixed and dry its awsome but getting there is a mission. as for the hieght no problem i normally stand on the couch or the window sill or the slab itself .Ill redesign a angle iron stand now that just uses the wall as anchor points and post later ..thanks for all the input
     
  12. OP
    stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    think im gonna go with something like this .... a angle iron or square tube stand bolted to the wall for anchorage.spoke to my builder he rekons the rhino slabs underneath will handle all the wieght easily ???.. will start this weekend and take it bit by bit ..thanks for all the advice..

    stand2.jpg

    stand 1.jpg
     
  13. Donny

    Donny

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    This looks like the strongest and safest.. raw bolts in a wall can pull out .. 20mm to 25 mm square tube should be strong enough ..
     
  14. OP
    stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    awsome thanks Donny.
     
  15. Donny

    Donny

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    I have had 3 x 1.2's stacked on top of one another on a stand made from 20 mm square tubing. In the centre of each tank i have a brace running from the back to the front and under each tank i put 15mm peace of wood then 10 mm of foam.... hope this make sense.
     
  16. OP
    stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    I normally use 2 8mm masonite as base then the 20mm foam, think ill use a 50 mm tube for the 4 legs and 50mm angle iron up the wall and back to attach to the wall I m a strong believer in overkill.
     
  17. Donny

    Donny

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    this sounds way strong enough ...
     
  18. f-fish

    f-fish #unspecified

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    nice project - have fun - oh and post pics once done ..
     
  19. Bufamotis

    Bufamotis

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    btw, what prog did you do the mockups with?
     
  20. OP
    stormbringer101

    stormbringer101 ARO

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    just finished doing measurments and drawing to scale .off to builders tm to see what the damage will be Im hopping they can cut all the squre tube to size for me and then all I have to do is drill and weld and assemble (in theory).......
     
  21. Gareth

    Gareth Angel Freak

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    Hope you come right dude I think when it is all done it is going to be awesomes
     

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