Complete newbie - need some advice and pointers

This past Saturday I did the typical Dad-thing, and went out to buy my 5-year old daughter a fishtank. She's been bugging me for ages about wanting "Fishies". She's been facinated ever since watching "Nemo" and seeing a Nemo setup in tank at a petshop at Brightwater Commons.

I thought I'd walk into the shop, pick up a starter tank, some gravel, rocks and plants, slap everything together, and hey presto!

Then came the rude awakeing. Firstly, I was told that to setup a marine tank was very expensive, would need to thingie to get to slat-content of the water just right, and this this would take up to 6 weeks before we could add any fish. At this stage I was still in denial and just wanted a tank to stick some fish in when we got home.

Onto plan "B" - some tropical fish then.

This kit (tank size is about 64cm x 45cm x 32cm) came with everything needed, including a heater, and should be ready for fish in 24 hours. Much better. so we got the tropical starter kit, including heater, themometer, filter (plastic version using charcoal and the white fluffy stuff), some dechlorinator (at least I think that's what it is, turns blue in the water?), some rocks, a piece of driftwood and some live plants. The products in the starter kit are all Daro products - not the best it would seem...


Day 1

We set about cleaning the tank using only water (no detergents) inside and out. Washed the gravel to remove all the sand and dust and added to the tank.

First problem. Some overzealous idiot vacuum-sealed the kit so figirously, that the Daro plastic filter melted out of proportion! So off to Petmasters again to replace the damaged filter.

Second problem - not enough gravel. the Sera "how to" guide that came with the tank suggests about 5cm layer of gravel, while we ended up with barely 2cm. So I go buy some more gravel. Looks better but still not enough and think I mat need to buy some more this afternoon.

Day 2
Washed the rocks and driftwood, and put in position. Washed the charcoal and loaded the filter as per Petmaster's staff - half charcoal at the bottom, half woollie stuff at the top. Now, from reading here, that seems wrong? Should be wollie stuff at the bottom, then charcoal, then more woolie stuff at the top right?

Ok. So. Heater in place. Filter in place (I thought I'd be really ingenious and cut slits in the cover for the cables and pipe, so that the lid could still close flush and not squeeze the pipe shut - this is going to prove a problem - see further down).

Start filling the tank, careful not to disturb the gravel. All goes well until the water reaches the filter (sitting at the bottom). The thing starts to float mid-tank! No-one told me to anchor or weigh it down... Why didn't they fit suction cups to the bottom I wonder?

Ok, so the tank is now completely filled.

Problem number three. My ingenious idea of making a small hole to poke the filter pipe through backfires, because everytime I need to remove the cover I have to thread the pipe in or out. Forgetting this and removing the cover means the filter gets yanked off the bottom of the tank! Will have to think of another idea...

Plants have now been added, as well as the dechlorinator (turns water blueish?). Heater works fine, but the cable for the filterpump is ridiculously short, so not running at the moment.


So...what I thought would be a quick trip to my local pethyper and near-instant gratification for the daughter is starting to turn into a bit of a non-event. Going onto day 3 and still battling with the setup, nevermind the fish.

I'd appreciate any advice on the following:

1. How much gravel is enough? I've taken the plants out of the little plastic containers and planted them in the gravel, but the roots aren't completely covered. Do I need more gravel?

2. How do I anchor the #$#$ filter to the bottom of the tank without if floating away? Tried showing some of the gravel under it, but the gravel does not appear to be heavy enough.

3. I'm reading a lot about the CO2 cycle. What do I need besides the dechlorinator to ensure a healthy tank? Read something about bacteria I need to add? How good is the Sera stuff (Nitrivec)?

4. What/how do I check, ie. PH balance, amonia level, nitrate/nitrite level? Do I buy tester kits, and what are the correct levels? Can I get something to add to correct levels if needed?

Sorry, complete newbie and bit off way more than I can chew, and have a 5-year old who's about to become very disappointed in her Dad!


Thanks guys,
Stephan

 

Hi Stephan

Ok your first mistake, Petmasters. Second mistake listening to their staff.

Lets see were we can help.

You have a standard 2 foot tank. Your bubble filter might not be enough to run this tank efficiently.
You might have to look at an internal filter of about 300l/h. These filter do have suction cups and are a lot easier
setting up as they are plug and play

You most likely got non aquatic plants that might die after a few weeks. But lets assume you have the proper plants.
You will need the substrate to cover the roots completely about 4cm will do. You also need proper light and may need some fertilizer for them.

Fish wise for the little one I would go guppies or other easy fish.

A freshwater tank needs to be cycled just like a marine tank does although not that long. There are things you can add to speed this up but rarely avoid it all together.
Dechlorinator are blue but get a better brand like seachem prime. Better product and best value for money if you work per ml.

There are a few test kits out there but they do not come cheap. You can also take water to a LPS and they can test it for you if they provide that service.

Petmasters are good price wise when it comes to food and other stuff like seachem brand things.
For fish rather go around the corner to Loolilocks Koi Farm. They have great service with knowledgeable people and healthy stock. Bought some of the best looking guppies I ever saw there.

If you have more questions ask away.

Also look at the beginner section and read about the nytrogen cycle there is no such thing as a CO2 cycle.

Regards

 

Hi Stephan

Firstly welcome to our corner of the asylum. Hope you enjoy the stay here and learn from us as we have learned from each other.

1. Enough gravel is debatable as each individual has hes/her own preference. I myself prefer a layer between 3-5 cm to allow enough depth for plant roots but that is for a flat layout. Got the exact same tank as you set up for my Betta and I used roughly about 16kg's of pea gravel.

2. The corner filter that you are referring to is a real nasty piece of work but I have found that a nice sized white river pebble between the carbon and filterwool "white fluff" does the job of keeping it on the ground

3. When talking about the bio-cycle it is the time that the tank needs to circulate before adding fish, reason being that you need a bio culture to process ammonia and nitrates that occur in the tank due to the fish messing and also food left overs. Nitrivec is good for this purpose but then you need to cycle the tank for at least a week. For low tech setups like most beginners have... Stick to brands like Tetra, Sera and aquadene. Daro products are more meant for the average joe wanting some guppies or goldfish.

4. To check the water quality i use Tetra's 6 in 1 pond sticks... The tube also have indications of what the correct levels should be (generic) for more species specific details you will have to research the species a bit. Or ask the prof.

HTH

 

Thanks guys, appreciate the advice, might just get that pair of sock for Father Day's next year! Will shout if I need more help.

 

If your 5 year old is anything like the average... You are going to buy your own father's day gift and it will be swimming in the kiddo's tank

 

Welcome to TASA, enjoy the info.
Do as the other members pointed out. Enjoy the tank.

 

Hi Dibertza...

You have come to the right place for advice... This isn't going to take a degree is magician magic... but I can see into the future....

I see you spending more and more money on tanks, fish, filters, food, plants, finally CO2, high tech lighting and more and more demanding fish... why??? Because it would appear the fish-bug has bitten. Once this bug has infected, MTS kicks is, and to date Eskom prices is the only cure!

At the top of this page is a button called "Forum." Click on it. Then scroll through the list of subforums until you find a sub-sections called articles. Click on it.

Inside this sub-forum you will find a list of articles written by our members. The top 6 are called "sticky articles" meaning they are pretty important. Give them a read... you can skip that article about CO2... you can get to that one in about 12-18 months time. You should get a lot of answers from those few articles. Get to know the Nitrogen cycle (this one is KEY) and then there's 3 articles I wrote (Zoom's Article 1, 2 & 3) all writted specifically for beginners.

Oh, and welcome to TASA... We are a bunch of nuts, but we have nice sugar coating around us!

 

As I've repeatedly tried pointing out to my wife, this is NOT for my benefit. I'm merely trying to instill a sense of responsibility into my daughter, teach her about nature, etc etc. Maybe you guys will fall for it, don't quite think she did.

 

Hahaha! I learnt both of these lessons the hard way too.
Turned out to be a very expensive lesson and more disappointing than I could have ever imagined...
(I said goodbye to my first fish-friends after only 5 days)

Seriously though, if anybody can help you out, these guys can

Welcome to TASA...!

 

Thank Double-D, so have I've got this filter setup correctly (carbon at the bottom, wool at the top)? Think I read in one of the articles, it should be wool, carbon, then wool again?

 

: ) Welcome to TASA... Dont be intimidated by all the advise thrown around on here. Everyone is here to help and share there experience ! We are also a support group to your new addiction so yes, I believe you on the nature and responsibility thing! That also comes handy when it is water change time : )

 

It actually doesn't really matter... ideally you want the water going through the wool first (to catch the particles) and then through the Carbon so it can absorb the nasties... however there is very little biological filtration happening in this filter. (Again, if you read those articles you will see the importance of this aspect of filtration, and understand why some people say this type of filtration is inadequate)

 

So. I think I bought myself some more trouble yesterday...

The tank I bought didn't come fitted with a light (Daro, 61x32x32).

I got a 15W globe (#$#$ they're expensive!!) and a Marltons Aqua-Light Electronic Ballast Starter Unit (15w).

Now. Please, maybe I'm just thick, but can someone explain to me how to fit this to my tanktop???

There's two clips that hold the globe, I get that.
There's two connectors for the globe to plug in, get that as well.
But how does all this fir to the top??

The top had two holes in front, through which two nuts are fitted, securing a piece what looks like leftover top material in the inside. I thought that the globe is supposed to be clamped between this, but it doesn't fit.

This brings me to my second concern/problem: the packaging clearly states to keep the globe and assembly away from water (at least 10cm). This thing is NOT sealed - it's just two connectors with the globe in the middle. This morning when I lifted the lid I noticed quite a bit of condensation under the lid. Surely fitting this kind of assembly is jsut going to short out, as the condensation will settle on the globe and fittings?

Please, tell me I didn't pay "schoolfees" of almost R200 again, for something that's not suited to my tank/top (btw, this was sold to me by the same people I bought the tank from).

Thanks,
Stephan

 

Hi Stephan,

Sadly school fees is ALWAYS something that we have all paid in this hobby, but fear not... what you have can be used. From your description, you have a standard black plastic hood(canopy). 99percent of the lights that you will see under these hoods are all custom fitted... meaning you won't use the provided holes etc. Usually these canopies are predrilled and fitted to take those big ugly grey light units... which I'm gathering you have not got. (Which isn't a bad thing...)

Basically redrill the holes to where you want to place the tube, put the tube clips on, clip the tube in, and connect the 2 connectors. Ideally you want the ballast to sit outside. The connectors are usually water resistant, and you shouldn't have any problems with water moisture. As long as no moisture is getting into the ballast, you will be fine.

Now... on a slightly different note, if you are getting condensation inside the hood, you can consider drilling some more (approx 20-25mm diameter) holes into the hood to try and prevent this.

 

@Reedfish

From what I gather it looks similar in design to this (Just obviously the 2foot version)

 

Thanks Zoom, will do that. Will have to hunt for some suitable screws, as the kit didn't come when with to secure the clamps, and the standard ones fitted ot the hood are way to long.

Some updates since all the great feedback and a couple more questions...

Went and got some more gravel yesterday, as well as a new filter (Resun 380L) - The corner filter was just driving me nuts, as the slightest disturbance around it dislodged it from the bottom, not to mention the pathetically short electrical cord. Also got the light and fittings as mentioned earlier, and some plant fertiliser and Nitrivec (more on this below).

Drained the tank down to the gravel and added the extra gravel - level is now a decent 5cm and the plants sit more firmly now - looks better too.
Installed the new filter (what a breeze!) and configured it to spray top-down.
Re-adjusted the heater to sit diagonally.
Refilled the tank and did the dechlorintor thing again, and after an hour or so added the fertiliser.

Besides the lighting setup which Zoom already answered, I have one other question.

In Zoom's articles as well as replies to my questions, it's repeatedly mentioned that when adding Nitrivec or something similar, the tank should sit for at least a week before introducing fish. This was also echoed by the local fish-guy, except he said I should add the same amount every day for a week?

I seem to remember reading in one of the other article however, that the cycle can only really start when adding fish, so the quicker the better. Also, the Nitrivec bottle states that by using it, you can start adding your fish (10% stock 1st etc) after 24 hours.

So, getting some conflicting info here, can someone please clarify?

Thanks,
Stephan

 

Stephan,

You will always get conflicting advice with regards to the tank cycling. You will always find that the companies that sell the starter cultures (like Nitrivec) claim you can start within 24 hours... and I was actually surprized to see this bottle said start with only 10% of stock. The reality it... what is 10 percent? 10 fish, 1 fish... because even you don't know how many fish you are going to ultimately put in.

I'm assuming you've read the article on the nitrogen cycle, and understand that you need a certain level of bacteria to populate the filter, (and substrate might I add) in order to deal with firstly excess food, secondly fish waste, and lastly plant matter breaking down. The Nitrivec you are adding is in essence the bacteria... but wait, you have no fish... thus no food or waste to feed this bacteria. This is why the bottles say you can add a fish or 2 from day 24... because essentially they need something to feed their bacteria.

Some people claim that you can help "speed" the cyling by adding a few Danio's... as they are hardy fish. Fair enough... but to me it sounds a bit cruel... even if the fish can tolerate it. I always prefer to advise people to use their starter culture as per bottle instructions, thus add it daily, and add a pinch of fish food every day.

Look, you going to go through the ammonia and nitrite spike... regardless... this is called a new tank occurance, and will happen. The Starter Cultures are just there to help prevent the spike from happening too drastically.

My advice... keep adding the starter culture for the recommended period. Add a pinch of fish food daily... and then maybe introduce 4 small fish on day 4. (Friday afternoon / Saturday). Add more fish the following week... and so on until you are happy with the stocking levels. Just remember to add fish slowly... not 40 fish in one go.. the filter will not handle it. Keep up the weekly maintenance, and you will be fine.

Another tip... your plants are fairly new and still establishing themselves... for the first 3 weeks, don't overdose on the ferts... rather give less than recommended dosage. Excess ferts that doesn't get used by the plants is food for algae.

Start your lights off on 6 hours a day, and work you way up to 8 hours (max). It doesn't matter if the lights have a mid-day off period... many people with planted tanks actually do this on purpose to prevent algae. (i.e lights on for a few hours in the morning, then off for a few hours, and then on again in the evening).

(So nice to have a new member taking our advise seriously and using it... and not telling us he, or his lps knows better!)

 

Hi Stephan!

To attach your clips to the hood - drill two small holes, then simply use a cable tie to pull the clips securely to the canopy. V easy! HTH!

 

Ok with regards to the Nitrivec... 24 hours is enough according to Sera but out of experience we have learned that giving the cycle a week is what is needed for optimal conditions. Also what you can do to "boost" the cycle is to add a small amount of food near the filter and have it sucked into the sponge... Feeds the bio medium by creating ammonia and makes them multiply rapidly. Also when adding the fish it is good advice to add a few fish at a time. Adding all at once will cause an ammonia spike and kill off some or most of your fish. Also when adding fish it's good to look at fish temperament and habits like ie. putting gentle fish with fin nippers will only cause heartache and frustration.

With regards to the light and canopy... Assuming you have the same little grey assembly I have. I used the pre drilled holes for the clamps with the bolts i got with the canopy. Just make sure to re-size the holes of the clamps slightly. I used the screws you get with the ballast to mount it on the outer backside of the canopy...

HTH