choice of Co2 regulators

I am just setting up a planted tank, 110g, I am keen to get some advice on CO2 regulators and wondered what make to get and where or are all regulators basically the same ? I live in the Southern Peninsula. I presume a DIY sytem would not be worthwhile for this size tank ?

Ps: Where does one get Baby Tears, none of the various LFS seem to stock them ?

Many thanks for your wisdom.

 

Hello and welcome to TASA,I don't know anything about Co2 myself but somebody is bound to come by and help you.

 

choice of CO2 systems and where to get ?

Thanks Stormer, no info from any of the folk out there yet.. I am not sure where my posting is seen and if it's perhaps just limited to new members ?

 

Hey Trevor,I'm using a Azoo Regulator with magnetic valve.Bought of E-Bay.Local regulators are too expensive.I have had no problems so far.

Regards
Rudi

 

hello and Welcome.
My tank is slightly larger than your as well as much deeper.
I am using DIY CO2.
Look at this thread for more info.
http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/showthread.php?t=2517

 

I looked at a number of diy solutions but all had a downside. The main one was the need to switch off at night to avoid the inevitable co2 overdose when lights went out as photosynthesis no longer takes place, plants in fact reverse their metabolic processes and release co2 during this time all resulting in dangerously high co2 levels. Other challenges with yeast was that they need constant maintenance, need to be very well sterilized need to be properly airtight and take up space. Paintball canisters are a good option but also need regular maintenance and I did not have the time to hunt for adaptors.

I have never done the eBay thing and was hesitant. It however has worked out well, my regulator cos 60usd or abt R400 and glass diffuser was around r70. They took 5weeks to bet here and so far so good. I picked up a 5kg tank for r400 so all in I have a long term and reliable solution for under r1000. Yes it is Chinese but no regrets yet. It comes with a power linked solenoid connected to my timer which switches on the lights, so that means it runs automatically when the lights come on. Avoiding the above and making sure it only runs when required. I'm not sure how long one fill will last but I'm guessing 6 mths at least and at r15 per killo to fill .... No sweat. So all in all I am very happy. My plants have really started to pickup growth rate, some bubbling and all in a great outcome..

Bear in mind however that co2 cannot be seen in isolation, my water was far too soft and the co2 had no buffering in it... Which simply means that the ph swings around hecticly. In fact it comes out of the tap between a ph of 7 and 7.5 and after a short while was sitting under 6 ! If you read any of the info on this forum ph swings are a disaster to fish and quickly kill. Easy outcome is to add a ph buffer, in this case sodium bicarb. But longer term you want to add prof drops, which I am waiting for or another commercial solution.

Also co2 means all your plants demand more so you need to think abt a range of supplements such as iron, potassium, nitrates, calcium etc etc. I am going through just this learning. My swords went really pale and leaves were yellowing, clearly with the increased growth the nutrients supplemented by water changes is insufficient, turned out swords need more iron... Ok you live and learn, again i am speaking to the prof to add supplements to get that tank i have always dreamed of !

Lastly make sure you have enough lighting, above 2 watts per gallon.... I'm sure you know this though.

I am a newbee so if you like pm me and I can give some first hand learnings..

 

Yea thanks Milsky, sounds as though we are going along the same newbee path. I also have my concerns on the DIY systems. As I am currently trying to hide the delightful fragrance of micro worms brewing in containers, carefully hidden in various corners of the house, the thought of several bottles of more brewing yeast will if discovered, surely result in a domestic mutiny ! I'm under 10 posts, but will try and send you a pm via one of the moderators, regarding the other details.

 

I am running a SAGA CO2 Regulator (with Dual Gauges, Solenoid Valve & Needle Valve) thats linked to the same timer as the lights, light go on, solenoid opens and CO2 flows, lights go off, solenoid closes.

 

aaah the path of a newbie, i have to say there are some really smart guys on this forum and it is a task not to feel a little out of your depth sometimes but I have learnt a ton so far... frankly this is what i enjoy best about keeping fish, it is technical and does require ongoing understanding and learning.... I strongly suggest you go the whole hog and try get yourself a co2 reg and bottle, you can even buy one of the micro regs which are around 30 USD if memory serves.

As Henk points out the solonoid ensure that that the dammn thing switches off at night.. as this is what will ultimately limit your ability to get the right amounts of co2 in during the day, clearly yeast does not sleep nor can you switch it off else mutiny will be the least of your worries...unless you want to start your own microbrewery.. all over your lounge floor... does this make sense ? If you are generating co2 24/7 then the maximum you can produce is what is non toxic when the plants are "asleep" and now producing their own co2 (together with the fish) any more and you will wake up to a sad scene, likewise this maximum Co2 may then be insufficient during the day to have the desired effect.

I have read a lot about non co2 injection and there is some very interesting comments, the prof has a lot to say about reducing the ph in your tank to increase the available co2 or something like that... his article makes sense (although many people pro co2 injection were unhappy), I also came accross the following which looks very closely at non co2 injection

"Plants and algae both can and do adapt to low CO2 environments and induce genes to make enzymes that concentrate CO2 around Rubisco, the CO2 fixing enzyme. When we add the CO2 at higher levels back, this causes the plants and algae to destroy the low CO2 enzymes and start growing without of them since they no longer need them to fix CO2 form the KH ( the -HCO3)."

These guys also look at seachem excell as a great additive for natural carbon that helps the plants...

Not sure if posting from other forums is ok but lets take a bash (apologies in advance)... checkout this detailled sticky...

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2817-Non-CO2-methods

It does go on to say

"CO2 and non CO2 tanks work for all the same reasons, but........
They grow at different rates.

Based off of my testing, I'd estimate close to 5 to 10 times slower than a CO2 enriched tank at 2-3 w/gal. This rate of growth is such that the fish waste alone is enough to supply the needs for the plants."

This site and article is full of comments around nutrients, and the simple logic is that you should very strongly consider what ferts you are using because co2 (and lighting) can actually be a waste and only benefit algae if your ferts are too low and there is nothing to feed the plants ! So start here...

I realise now that I may have been too quick to buy the equipment because this generally is the easiest to understand, we know plants need light to grow and that they photosynthesise with CO2 to do so (well those of us that spent 12 questionable years at some level of educational institution)... so we rush out and buy loads of light and co2... easy to get...eh, understanding that nutrients and ferts are so critical to the process is something i am still trying to get my head around K+ / P /KRSO4 etc etc is a lot more intimidating than plugging things in..

 

Cant take a presure bottle on aircraft - ie airfreight, mail, courier etc. You will have to buy to bottle locally unless you are willing to import via LCL freight.

 

well you could but may involve a long stay in guantamo

got mine cheeep at firefighting equipment outlet in ctn... some lfs are selling them at over 1200 for 5kg !!! oh the joys of shopping around

 

ummmm no - its long before any terror issues - the presure bottles explode and the FAA/CAA doesnt allow any non-AMO maintained presure bottles on aircraft

 

or just gasses all the passengers ! pick your disaster...seriously though the recent crash in the states was directly attributed to the o2 canister doing just this, no chance you get any pressurised device on an airline...

 

Yea thanks folks for all the various suggestions ! Henk, I have not seen the SAGA regulator at any of the LFSs yet, perhaps you could kindely PM me where it is available ? The models now available at my LFS are the Reef Octopus DG 200 (R1.3K), Aqua Medic (R1.6K with no solenoid) and a Sera kit, quite pricey, this is only up to 400 lts, so this may be a bit small for my tank which is just over that. I can stare at these hi tech looking gadgets on the counter indefintely, but no idea how they individually perform, presume they all do the same and hope they are equally reliable ?

Quite surprised in the cost of the CO2 canisters, R1.2K for 6.8 lt, compared to my large domestic gas botles. Presumably they are other CO2 gas & cannister outlets than your LFS, but not sure I want to go the small canister pb/gun route ?

 

try Chubb Fire in paardenisland for the co2 bottle... i'll PM you about the reg

that would be the QANTAS B744, it didnt crash just had a huge hole in the side.

 

Hi Rudi, sent you a pm message via Rory, as I am still under 10 posts.

Have found your suggested Azoo regulator locally at a reasonable cost, compared to the European brands available here. I understand it's the quality of the needle that is important. Reviews that I have found on the Azoo seem favourable. I was wondering how it compares to the SAGA, also availably here but for substantially more. However all said when dealing with CO2 this is not something you want to be penny/pound foolish with ! There's also some scary info on the web regarding canister enddumps with genocidal results and strong suggestions that you need a dual stage regulator... the glories of technology !

As regards a bubble counter and dispenser, no idea which designs or brands are best, as there seem many available or are they all pretty much the same ?

Would be keen to hear your thoughts or any ones actually, as I need to make a decision soon ?

Many thanks

 

Thanks Milsky, craig sorted me out with the Co2 canister, as you say there are much better deals available with canisters compared to your LFS.. !

 

Sorry not Craig at Nova, I mean Andre, thanks again

 

Ya he's a top guy... Best prices for sure, would be interested to hear more abt what reg u decided upon, my cheapie is going strong but I also read abt the quality of the needle valves as well as brass being better than stainless steel ?

 

Yea Milsky, will have to pm you via one of the Moderators.

At this stage it looks as though I am going for the Azoo regulator, as recommended & used by some other forum folk, including bofs I contacted in the US, more importantly it’s available locally by one of the site sponsors (Dolphin), so hopefully there will be the necessary back up if needed. It also costs substantially less than many of the other European brands. With the dosh I have saved on this and the canister, I’m considering splurging out on the Azoo PH controller as well, linked to the solenoid. That will make things a lot easier and PH stress free. Not sure what you think.. ?

Ps thanks for the email, will respond