Breeding angelsfish

I took over an angelfish breeding setup last Thursday and moved the rig and breeding pairs back from CT to somerset west. 6 days later ( wed this week ) i had my first batch of eggs. I have followed Prof Dirks advice on a previous thread about angelfish breeding and left the parents in the tank with the eggs and noted their good parental skill yesterday at removing the eggs that had gone white.

I have also left a light on in the fish room over night and this morning the eggs had hatched and the wrigglers are attached to the glass and the parents are guarding them like hawks.

What i would like to know initially is it standard that angelfish eggs hatch approximately 36 hours after being laid?

They are golden angels.

Tks

Andrew

 

Yip that is normal. After about 5 days the will become free swimming. Its great to see the angels
trying to keep them all together.
You will see that some off the wriglers will still die, not sure why, maybe just weak.
Hope you have some brineshrimp to feed when they become free swimming?

My angels never ate any of the fry even without a nightlight.
In the morning the female will stay with the group while the male went around
in the 3ft collecting all the fry that got lost during the night and bringing them back to
the swarm.

Best of luck.

 

Interesting collective noun, lol. nee man gerhard, self ek weet dis nie a swerm visse nie.

 

well if you see them you will call it a swarm too Geen SKOOL visse nie

 

Quick update, now have 4 pairs of angels that have spawned and was even able to watch the one female actually laying the eggs.

nature is amazing

 

Need some help

Day 2 for the wrigglers and there is quite a bit of white fluffy fungus aabove the majority of wrigglers. Do I try blown this away with a syringe or should I just leave it.

Also, the pair of black angels that spawned are a lot larger in size, and the size of their eggs is a lot larger too, but there are way more infertile eggs amongst them than with the golden angels. What is normally the cause of these infertile eggs? Was the male perhaps disturbed during mating?

Andrew

 

I remove the male after the spawning is completed.
He tends to fight with the female and eat the eggs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bio_lover
Nice video. BTW, did u use indian almond leaves for your tank?

I have been using Alder Cones from Europe, the dark black ones...... No fungus on any eggs since.....
http://www.tynevalleyaquatics.co.uk/#/fishkeeping-products/4546755825

 

@mattie both parents seem protective over the eggs and fry

what do i do about the fungus?

on a previous quote @ prof dirk he says meth blue is useless.

I want to try save all my wrigglers

Andrew

 

Update sunday 1 may

first batch of angelfish fry are almost free swimming. 2nd batch have hatched and mother is moving her babies around. 3rd batch has more infertile eggs than fertile and loads of fungus. Fourth batch male ate eggs last night and fifth batch eggs all look healthy and parents are calm.

I still need advice about the fungus issue and what to do about it.

Tks

Andrew

 

Ok, from what you are describing, I would hazard a guess that you pH needs to be lowered? A lot of egg fungus can be attributed to the pH being out of the optimal range, and so they fungus. This could also explain why so few eggs are becoming fertile? I'm not certain, but I think water hardness can also affect the eggs? Maybe someone else could confirm this?

Can you give us the water parameters for each tank?

Cheers!
G!

 

Tks Gareth,

Will check the pH and hardness.

Is there anything one can do to eliminate the fungus once it has been formed? In the one batch of wrigglers the fry are mostly on the edge of the fungus so I'm hoping they will swim freely soon.

Guess it mainly boils down to optimum water quality?

Tks

Andrew

 

I cannot recommend anything for the Fungus, as I never had any issues with it on eggs? I did have one tank with Rams in that never had fertile eggs, but no fungus?

Maybe one of the others members who have done a fair bit of fish breeding may have the answer? Anyone?

If not, then I would just suggest getting the pH and hardness a little lower before the next spawn, and see if there is any improvement?

You can try using indian Almond leaves or Ketapang leaves, which are believed to have some anti fungal/bacterial properties in them, which may help? They will also help lower the pH and hardness too I believe?

I've even heard of some people using Rooibos tea, but I've never tried this!

I would think though that any treatment will be too late for this batch of eggs, but it shouldn't be long before they start laying again? I know my Apisto's would lay every two weeks like clockwork, sometimes they'd stretch it out to 3 or 4 weeks because they are tending to fry from the last batch, but then would lay again. Angels too can lay as regularly as every two weeks, but do tend not to re-lay eggs until their broods are removed form the tank.

Hope that helps?

Regards
G!

 

@pHish_man

Fungus grows on dead eggs. The lower bacteria count you have in the water, the longer this process will take. Nonetheless it will happen unless parents remove the dead eggs before then.
Dead eggs result from infertility or unsuitable water parameters. However as most of the other eggs hatched, lets presume its not the water, unless you got it right in 4 tanks and wrong in one.

If I read correctly the black angels have the low fertility rate and thus fungal problem.
Many times you have a male with low fertility, and among black angel this seem to be even more so.
There is nothing you can add at this stage to stop the fungus. Just hope the fry doesnt get caught up in it and by the time they are free swimming it doesnt matter anymore, the parents will eat those eggs then.

This will be a nice experiment as all these angels are similar aged. You will note, if you have puqe black angel fry that they will grow much slower than the other angels. Altum recently told me about an additive to 'load' brine shrimp that also enriches them vitamin and mineral wise. Maybe you should chat to him as anything to help with those blacks wilk be a bonus!

Hope you have good success with them.

Marco

 

@Marco

Tks, these are the first angel spawn I've had so another learning curve. I think the problem is more than likely related to water conditions than anything else, as I had only placed the fish in these holding tanks while I was moving the breeding set up.

So I will chalk whatever happens with these batches down to experience. I've finished moving the setup from ct to somerset and will now start assembly of the rig and move the adults back to the original breeding tanks in about two weeks. This gives me time to make sure water conditions are good and also any surviving fry will be old enough to remove the parents.

Tks for the valuable information and apologies for hijacking your discus thread. Hadn't received notification that there was your reply here and I was getting anxious for the fry mixed up in the fungus.

As it so happens there are quite a bit of the fry that are on the edge of the ball of fungus and I'm sure these will swim free soon. Have my bbs available for them and see their yolk sacs are getting smaller and eyes larger.

Regards
Andrew

 

Hi Phish_man

The fungus can be a problem sometimes. I noticed with my angels if they do not clean the eggs and they go fungal the parents will after about 2 days move the fry to a completely new location.
Do not know if your setup allows them to do this?

Interesting on the black fry. My male is not black but MUCH darker then the female. I noticed that 40% of the fry are a lot darker then the rest and that the lighter fry grow a lot faster.

 

Vis,

The one set of parents have moved their fry from the back glass panel to a piece of upright slate and then again to the top of the sponge filter. No fungus.

The pair where the heavy fungus is, the parents haven't moved the fry at all.

As for the growth rate of the black angel fry, at what stage could you differentiate that there were dark fry and light fry? Roughly what day?

Regards

Andrew

 

@pHish_man

NO PROBLEM about the discus thread man, its just better to keep things in orderly fashion otherwise it really gets derailed sometimes.

I havent bred Angels in over a decade so someone else should tell you when they start colouring up. If i remember correctly its from about day 21 onwards, but I might be completely mistaken.
Fungus is a problem and will always be. Some parents move the fry as Vis indicated, but I had the same problem with the Discus recently, so it doesnt always happen. It does seem however that the fungus doesnt affect the fry more than "trapping" them in it. If that happens, as soon as the rest are free swimming, I'd squirt the fungal growth with some water in an attempt to release them. You are going to lose them anyway so its worth taking the risk. Thats what I did with the discus and it worked fine.

Angels nowadays are really not that set as far as water conditions are concerned. I think if you can get them in a ph of anywhere between 6.5 and 7.5 with gh below 10dh and kh below 10dh you should have high fertility rates and the eggs should hatch without problem.

Black angels, and other dark angels grow slower as their bodies use huge amounts of protein (also needed for growth) for pigment formation. That how I understand it. . . So they need more feedings of high quality protein to ensure they dont sit with growth problems at a later stage.
You'd do well if you can feed them every two hours of the day and do two 10% water changes a day, one first thing in the morning, and one before lights out. Remember to get water to correct temperature before doing the changes.
I'm not sure if it would help, but it could even be beneficial to use "Trace Elements" sold in LPS to add minerals to the water.
Maybe @Altum, @Dirk Bellstedt or @Gert Combrink can help with that.

You should go chat to Gert sometime. He has been breeding angels for ages I understand. Altum will also give you some sound advice.

I'd also just like to mention this. Methylene Blue has been used extensively over decades in Aquaria. Many people swear by it and others condemn its use. I know for a fact that some very well established Discus breeders use it almost ongoing, not only for fungal prevention, but also as calming agent in breeding tanks, as it darkens the water making the fish feel safer. MB only fights fungus in that it blocks light needed for fungal growth. It is however an oxidant and does have some benefits. I would say one need to KNOW how to use it correctly, know its limitations and risks and take appropriate planning in order for it to be used problem free. I had a similar discussion about its use with Altum recently as it is still extensively used by Discus breeders worldwide.

Rgds

Marco

 

Hi phish_man

Not sure why some of the fry is darker coloured, if it is an actual indication of
Color or something else but it was visible 3 days after becomming free swimming.
Day 7 today and they are just under a cm big. The darker ones getting a little darker
and the light ones staying that way.

Gerhard

 

Ok, the batch of fry that I was worried about because of all the fungus is now free swimming in the tank and the fungus has only a couple of dead eggs and hardly any fry trapped in it.

Now my concern is the parents. They seem to be sucking the fry in and spitting them out again but not sure if they aren't swallowing the odd fry. I've fed the first batch of bs and the fry are swimming strongly so ill wait and see.

@mattie

You suggested removing the male. Is this standard practice with angels? When my convicts spawn its the male that looks after the fry and I always need to separate the male and female.

@Marco

Guess this is all good practice in anticipation for that elusive discus spawn........

Regards

 

The parents will try and keep the fry together by sucking them up and
spitting them out again. I think once in a while maybe one might get swollowed.
The group of fry will get a little smaller as some of the weak die off.