Apparently some crayfish are legal...

me and one of the site's moderators have spoken bit and both looked at the blacklist from the invasives site. under the newest blacklist, certain crayfish are not listed, like mexican dwarf crayfish. in a nutshell, If they are not on the blacklist then they are perfectly legal to keep.

Keep in mind that a lot of crayfish are banned but I can specifically say that not all crayfish (Like mexican dwarves) or even snails are banned. any opinions? and any idea where I can find a Mexican dwarf? lol

 

Careful, some things that are not on the blacklist are covered under the fisheries aquaculture guidelines with very broad strokes, hope you not saddling yourself up for needing a permit or adhere to those set of rules, cause that is a different ball game.

Later Ferdie

 

But, Ferdie, @Ladysphinx has a mexican dwarf crayfish - @lady, where did you get yours? She can tell you a whole lot more about its personality, I read something about it last night in one of her threads but I'm sure she'll be more than happy to give more information on it and where to buy it.

I got to say pond snails are invasive - they breed too easily for my liking BUT it's my fault for picking them out of the river, thinking they would sort the algae problem and they brought a whole ton of issues into my first tank. Learnt my lesson and scrubbed them out. In the wild ecosystem, it's kept in balance as I've noticed that some leeches love having them for snacks and probably the fish in the river too.

 

I have explained to @Umbra the problems and frustrations regarding clarity on certain species

I have also explained about the so called "white list" wich is no where to be found... they couldnt even give it to me at the time i applied for the permit for the rays
I have personally searched DAAF's site and legislations... everything i find is on our local species, export of local species etc...

So.... another of those situations where you cant actually give accurate answers... only what you can find...

The only other way if you have the time, patience and are determined is to go to the Department yourself and maybe spend the day there and hopefully find the answers you want..
When i was sorting out for my rays, i had a good friend that's the head of the conservancies and put me onto the right people... the right people in turn put me onto another 10 right people... and so it went...

 

Crustaceans and molluscs (among others) not covered per species or genus must be assumed to be blanket blacklisted, as the two groups account for some of the most problematic invasive aliens in water systems. I have to stress that we have to put our natural ecosystems first, and resist the urge to look for loopholes in the lists, pick an argument with conservation authorities, or worse, circumvent proper channels and import illegally. Even following correct channels, there is a chance of something being allowed by the authorities ending up in an ecological disaster that might be the bane of countless future generations. To conservation authorities, this constant requesting for permission to keep exotic fish, shrimps, crayfish, birds, snakes or whatever must sound like a dripping tap, and it is hard enough to do their job already. I am not saying it is wrong to ask, but there is a good way that follows the right channels and involves a lobby group that has supporting information and research data, and there is a less good way that involves individuals asking for favours etc. without the backing of relevant information. I think everyone who wants to keep exotic pets that are not whitelisted should spend 6 weeks as a volunteer doing alien species eradication, border control or similar, to understand the issues that the authorities have to deal with.

 

Yeah - love this idea, think it should be mandatory before any copulation as point two. Way too many people have pest .. aaah pets ahh kids without understand the landscape and responsibility of the invasive little DNA combinations.

Later Ferdie

 

yeah, some pond snails seem to be on the blacklist. some species atleast.

Well, they mentioned one specie, Procambarus clarkii, but didn't say anything about Procambarus alleni so it can't be a blanket blacklist.

 

Guys, Invasives emailed me back twice and they themselves said it's all right that those crayfish are kept. That things are legal if they are not on the list. No permits needed as the species that require permits are also listed wheras Cambarellus patzcuarensis Orange is not listed at all.

Here is the Emails:

>> On 2 May 2017 at 20:03, Orro Gryphon <*********> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I see a lot of people say that all freshwater crayfish are illegal to
>>> keep in an aquarium, but is this true? an I really not allowed to keep
>>> a crayfish (dwarf crayfish) in my aquarium? I am really interested in
>>> trying to get a few but I don't want to break any laws.
>>>
>>> I await eagerly for any information.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Philip.
>>>
>>

> On 5/3/17, Kay Montgomery <kay@wordlink.co.za> wrote:
>> Hi Philip
>>
>> Please find attached a list of invasive freshwater invertebrates.
>>
>> As you did not specify the species name... we thought it best to send you
>> the list.
>>
>> The legislation in its entirety can be found at
>> http://invasives.org.za/legislation/what-does-the-law-say
>>
>> I have also included a brief overview of the legislation.
>>
>> Regards
>> Kay
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Kay Montgomery
>> Invasive Species South Africa
>> Tel: +27 11 723 9000
>> Cell: +27 82 659 0939
>> www.invasives.org.za
>> Facebook: Invasive Species South Africa
>> Facebook: Cape Town Invasives
>> Facebook: Mbombela Invasives
>> Report Invasives - DEA Hotline - 0800 205 005

On 3 May 2017 at 13:00, Orro Gryphon <********> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sorry, the crayfish are in the Cambarellus genus for example the
> mexican dwarf crayfish (Cambarellus patzcuarensis Orange) which is
> harmless. I did take a look at the species list and it's name wasn't
> listed. if it wasn't listed, I presume it's ok to keep the crayfish?
>
> Thank you so much for your help.
>
> Kind regards,
> Philip.



<kay@wordlink.co.za>

Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:06 PM
To: Orro Gryphon <*************>

yes... if it is not on the list ... all is well. K




That's the entire conversation. I double, triple and quadruple checked the lists she sent me and a few others too.

 

Now do you know of anywhere to get dwarf crayfish?

Sent from my F3112 using Tapatalk

 

I have a number of someone who sold mine to me privately. If anyone is interested pm me and I wil give you the nr can't promise you they still sell them but they were actively breeding them when I got mine

 

awesome! thanks

 

So does this mean we are going to see a truck load of guys trying to get all the colours and shaped I saw in bkk a weeks back?



Cause they seam like rather desertlike tanks and displays.











eish ...

Later Ferdie

 

are you saying it is bad to keep crayfish just because of how their tanks look? dont judge other people's tastes please, because thats what it sounded like. If you dont like crayfish, don't try to make other people dislike them who actually do like them because to us its not about the tank but the animal itself.

 

Usually these threads head in the same direction. I actually dont quite understand why they are usually allowed to run its course

You have an individual that stubbornly refuse to accept what is at hand, argue to the point of causing arguments, and then usually disappear.
No matter what they are told there will always be another
"Yes, ok - BUT" post.....

Umbra - I can categorically tell you that these creatures are illegal to import, keep and distribute within the borders of South Africa. Period.
There is no getting around it.
And with good reason

Dorff has taken the time to do a very pleasant write-up abt the path you are following

Please familiarize yourself with reasons for animals being placed on invasive/prohibited and banned species lists.
Its not always because they are invasive
Sometimes the animals are protected because they are endangered, and because dealing in them will further harm numbers.

I do not see that these Crayfish will ever be legal. Its simply not going to happen.





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Marco Mexican Dwarf Crayfish are not on the blacklist anywhere so they are the only crayfish allowed as far as I can see.

 

They have never been legalised. They have been expressly banned previously, and the ban hasn't been explicitly overturned. If they were imported before 2016, it would have been done outright illegally, and currently the status is that they are not on a whitelist, which means that none of the prior illegal imports have been legalised. No one has done any EIA's or related studies to justify their import, and at best there is an enforcement vacuum, not explicit permission to import or breed and keep them. What little we know is that related species have wreaked havoc wherever they became established, hence the emphasis should be on extreme caution. Again, it is totally reckless and irresponsible to promote or participate in the keeping, breeding and distribution of these creatures. None of us have any idea whatsoever what ecological impact they might have if some manage to escape. For that reason, it is high time to stop with this selfish nonsense, and to start thinking beyond the tip of one's own nose.