Angelfish fry question

Hello,

Ive got a pair of angels that laid eggs a week ago but then the eggs got eaten. I believe that they will spawn again soon. Ive watched youtube videos on breeding them and caring for their fry, I noticed that in all of the videos that everyone with angelfish fry use a bare bottom tank with daily 15 - 75% water changes. My pair is currently housed in a 220L planted aquarium with 50% RO water. I think the waste left behind by the other fish and some dying plants will make the water quality too low for the standard of angelfish fry. I cant collect enough RO water to make these regular water changes for such a big tank. I also cant collect enough rain water either.

I can set up a 50L bare bottom just for them. The filter will have no time to mature (Is this neccessary if large water changes are done so often?). At some point I will need to move the pair to the 50L, what would be the best time to do this? Before they lay eggs or when the eggs are laid (I want to keep the eggs with the parents so parents and eggs will be moved together)? I already have a existing 50L bare bottom that is filled with non-dechlorinated tap water and a cycled filter.

What would be my best option?
-To let the parents breed and rear their fry in the 220L
-After they have laid their eggs to move the parents and eggs to either the cycled tap water tank or a newly set up tank with RO water.
-To move the parents to either the cycled tap water tank or a newly set up tank before they lay eggs.

If I should move them to a newly set up tank then what should the ratio of RO water to tank water from the 220L be (remember that the 220L tank is made up of 50% RO water + 50% dechlorinated tap water and has been cycled with plants and fish for about a month)?

Thanks for reading my essay
Mitch

 

Hi Mitchell,

I breed angels on an ongoing basis and I try to do it the natural way, in other words that the parents raise their fry so I support your approaches here.

Forget about the bare bottom tanks, this is not necessary, I mean, fishes in nature also do not breed on glass bottom rivers......!

Angelfish do not require the regime of these water changes as you have explained, that is excessive. If you can remove the plant waste as far as possible, just by taking it out of the tank and then syphoning off as much of the waste as possible, I think that this should be enough.

I also think that the 220 litre tank will be much better than the 50 litre tank, that is just too small, I don't breed angels in less that 120 liter tanks.

So, leave the parents in the 220 l tank. Don't move eggs and parents, the parents will just eat the eggs, you will upset them completely.

I would try to see if they have success in your 220 litre tank and if not, just repeat the water changes with the RO water and even some normal aerated tapwater, and I am sure that you will have success in breeding them.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Thanks for the advice, you have convinced me. First I will need to move my bristlenose and cory's to the sump so that they dont eat the eggs again. I thought the 50L would be fairly ok because the pair is still fairly young around 5cm. Its actually quiet a suprise that they are breeding so young, I have a larger 12cm pair that have never bred before because the male is larger than female and almost kills her when I put them together.

 

Hi Mitchell,

The corys are actually fine just remove the ancistrus as they will eat the eggs. Also you must leave on a light in the room in which the tank is so that they can see the eggs at night. It is not necessary to keep the aquarium lights on, but the angels must be able to see the eggs at night or less they will not remember that they have eggs by the time the morning arrives.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Wont the cory's eat the wrigglers? Do the parents sleep when they have eggs?

Thanks,
Mitch

 

That is why I have told you to leave a light on in the room, then the parents can see the eggs and the fry, and although they sort of snooze, they do not sleep and then they do keep the corys away. Ancistrus are too powerful and would chase the parents away and eat the eggs, but corys are not that aggressive.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Jackpot! 2nd batch of eggs laid this afternoon. I am seeing some weird behaviour from the female, she is attacking and chasing away the male, they also do the 'kissing'. What does all this mean? Is he going to be a liability to the proccess?

 

Best of luck with your 2nd batch and dont forget a night light.
1st time i have heard of this but would definately do wha Prof Dirk says.

 

Is the night light a neccessity?

 

Yes, the night light is a necessity in my opinion, you can try without it, but don't blame me if your fishes wake up and have forgotten about laying eggs the day before and now think they will caviar for breakfast.

The action that you are seeing between the male and the female is fighting. This could relax or it could get worse and then they will eat the eggs. I would leave them with eggs to see what they will do, but watch them closely. If the eggs are not fertilized or are going rotten because the water in your aquarium is not suitable or if the eggs are not fertilized, the parents will eat them. However, if they fight they may just to eat them even if they are perfectly healthy. So, this is quite difficult to assess if you are not experienced and you will have to see what happens. Whatever does happen though, you can watch things closely and even if they make another flop, you will learn and will be able to improve things for next time.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Morning of day 2 eggs are still there. Due to constraints I didnt put a night light on the eggs last night. Three eggs are unfertilized, not full of fungus yet, it doesnt seem as if the parents are going do anything about it but Ill leave them.

 

Mitchell, if you just put on a reading light overnight in the room where the aquarium is that is enough, they do not need a bright light at all.

Anyway, don't despair it will happen again and the parents are learning.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Update:
The parents sorted out the unfertilized eggs but slowly more are appearing, none have formed fungus. Still several hundred eggs left.

 

HI Mitchell,

I completely misread your earlier email and I thought that there were not many eggs left. If things are ok, I am glad for your sakes, next step is that the eggs will hatch and then the fry will not be able to swim immediately, but will remain stuck on the medium and have tiny tails that will beat all the time. The chances are that the parents will move the fry so do not be upset if the fry appear somewhere else.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Update:
Hundreds of little wrigglers! Its fascinating to see how the parents catch the falling babies and redeposit them onto the wood. Some babies have fallen into the anubia on the wood, but the parents still take care of them there. The female is trying to move all of the babies to a new site on the glass, but the male is right beside her catching the fry as she spits them out and placing them back on the wood.

 

@Prof. Dirk a question,if we need a night light for the Angels to keep a eye on the eggs and fry at night,then I assume in nature they will only be spawning during a full moon?Captive fish are "stupid" and don't instinctively know how to take care of the eggs,but would you do the same if you had wild fish?

 

My experience with this night light stuff is that when you keep discus, and you do not use a night light, you can just about forget about fry. I have found that it helps with angels. I am not convinced that angels in the wild need the full moon for light, all I know is that their parenting properties are much better than the captive ones, and I can say this from personal experience with breeding wild-caughts. I think part of this problem has come from the practice of removing eggs and babies from their parents and then they actually do not know how to look after them. If you do this in dwarf cichlids the offspring will loose their parenting properties immediately (Rams and apistos). So, if the fishes do not actually see the eggs at night, they do not know what to do with them in the morning and then eat them.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Makes sense,thanks.

 

Congrats man. Keep us posted.

 

Hi Mitchell, hope not to hijack you thread but my Angels also decided to lay eggs this afterenoon so will just tag along with your thread.

Had 3 angels and two of them started picking on the one a few days back. They hanged around together and cleaning spots here and there. Removed the 3rd one today and took it to the LPS where it cam from. Was a gift from the owner.
When I got home a little later today there the eggs were.

Also a 250L pretty well planted tank with about 50 tetras so I do not foresee succes this time round.
Its their first spawn since I raised them from 3cm babies.

Laid the eggs on a broad leaf amazon sword about 30cm from the top of the tank and 40cm from the bottom.
They keep the other fish away successfully since most of them do not venture very high up the tank.
They laid the eggs quite close to the air inlet of the pickup pump, so they get a good flow and lots of oxygen there.

Leaving in 2 days for about 5 days so will see what happens when I come back and might move them to a 3ft tank to have another change.

Gerhard