Hi guys, There seems to be an influx of new members to our little corner of the universe, which is ALWAYS a good thing. Ultimately it means the bettering of our hobby. TASA members have a very strong love-hate relationship with it comes to LPS and LFS.. because they ALWAYS get it wrong. But here they seem to be getting something right; i.e. getting more people into the hobby. There seems to be a large number of people who are very concerned over their pH and are suddenly adding pH altering chemicals to their tanks, only to find that they have other problems they are dealing with. Before I continue any further... I need to give credit to a post made by @azurekoi as he made an extremely valuable contribution to this: Ok, so let me give you a brief... very brief science description, and I would request that members like @Dirk Bellstedt, @Rudi, @Laure to please correct me it I am wrong, or if my science is not 100%. pH is a scale of 0 - 14. 0 = acid 7.0 = Neutral 14.0 = Alkaline. A difference between 7.0 to 7.1 = 0.1 degree change. In this instance, 7.1 is TEN TIMES more alkaline than 7.0. A difference between 7.0 and 7.2 would be ONE HUNDRED TIMES. (10 x 10) kH is a measurement of Carbonate Hardness. One of the key principles of kH to aquarists is it's ability to BUFFER pH. Now I've lost half of you... so let's look at an example. If I have a glass of water, with a spoon in it, I can easily swirl the spoon. If I was to add filter floss to the water, it's less easy to swirl the spoon. Eventually if I keep adding filter floss, I won't be able to swirl the spoon. pH is like the spoon. kH works like the filter floss. The higher the kH, the more difficult it is for the pH to swing from one side of the scale to another. NOW.. we are starting to see some interesting readings with our new members pH. I'm not sure if the readings we are being given are due to the inaccuracy of the type of meters being used, or if the council is actually adding extra to the water. (I suspect the former). What needs to be noted is that the water in the Cape Regions is considered to be extremely soft (i.e low gH and low kH), and thus the pH CAN easily change drastically. I've heard story's from our experienced members of tap water pH in the Cape being 8.4, and dropping to 7.8/7.6 in a period of 24-36 hours due to this low carbonate hardness. (A side journey, if you want to add CO2 to a tank with low kH and low gH, you will need to add a buffer to the filter, because CO2 naturally causes the water to become more acidic... i.e it lowers the pH. If you don't, a pH crash will occur. This is when the pH changes 2.0 or more degrees in a period of a few hours, killing all your fish very fast). As Azurekoi has mentioned, many of today's fish are able to withstand different pH to what the book will tell you. The book will give you the natural environment pH that the fish naturally comes from... but it doesn't take into account that the fish you have purchased has been bred for countless generations in a different pH and their tolerance is vastly different to their original ancestors. My suggestion to you... stop wasting your money on pH uppers and pH downers. You are doing more harm than good. When you plan on doing a WC, collect tap water into drums 24-48 hours BEFORE adding it to the tank. Aerate the water with an airpump) Rather keep a STABLE pH than fluctuate the pH all the time to get to the "right" pH. {Obviously; this goes without saying; if your water pH after aging is something crazy like <5.0 or >9.0 you would need to consider some buffers. Generally speaking, most of our fish can tolerate between 6.5 to about 7.6/8.0 without any major issues. If you are keeping wild caught fish, with very specific water perameters, then you would need to follow completely different scenario.}
Nice thread @Zoom could we maybe make this a sticky thread, I think all new fishkeepers would enjoy and appreciate this post??
@Zoom Great info. I would like to add that ph is a logarithmic scale, so a ph of 5 is 10x more acidic than 6. Therefore, a ph of 4 is 100 times more acidic than 6. This is why it is so dangerous to just drop the ph by a point or 2.
Thanks dude I understand it a bit more now, but what effect does gH have then and what is it? What fish cannot thrive in a high kH environment? What should I do to get some buffers? I've read about sea-shells but I'm not sure. Just to be safe.
Hi @Zoom Very nicely written Zoom. I am sure many members will benefit from this. If you dont mind me adding something - Key to "safely" using ANY buffering chemical is to NEVER add it to your tank. No matter what the buffering capacity of your water - adding ph adjustment chemicals will result in a sudden drop/rise in ph which will kill the fish as you have said. Whenever I have to adjust ph, I do so in a large container with a large volume of water which I then allow to stand for some days to fully settle. Once this is done, providing a high enough Kh exist within the water, it will be safe to use this water as ph fluctuations are then basically out of the question. Regards Marco
Obviously; this goes without saying; if your water pH after aging is something crazy like <5.0 or >9.0 you would need to consider some buffers @Zoom i have soft water (West Coast) and from information on TASA need some buffer to "help" ph. Need more information regarding buffers -do we need buffers with soft water and if --what to use etc. Thanks Paul
@Zoom,good summary. @Razer2007,to help "buffer" our water,adding calcium and magnesium carbonates and bicarbonates,you can add crushed corral (my favourite),limestone or oyster shells to your tank.You can place it in your canister filter or sump filter. Gh (general hardness or total hardness) is the expression used in measuring all magnesium and calcium substances contained in fresh water.The main substances are carbonates,bicarbonates and sulfates. Kh (carbonate hardness) only expresses the amount of calcium and magnesium carbonates and bicarbonates in the water. The closer the two values(gh and kh) are to one another,the more balanced and stable the water is. Water with a high kh value is generally hard water and water with low kh is soft water. Fish from the rift valley,Malawi's and Tanganyikan's are hard water fish. Fish typically found in the Amazon basin is soft water fish. There is no need to buffer hard water.
Thanks @Rudi. Where would you find coral here? How would you know if the coral is making your water too hard for Amazon fish?
A correction pointed out to me by Professor Dirk. pH change from 7.0 to 8.0 is ten times more Alkaline, and from 7.0 to 9.0 would then be 10 x 10 (100). Ignore previous calculation error in first post. If you are looking for specific buffers, Id recommend asking fellow members who are in your area and ask what they are using.
@Razer2007,you can buy crushed corral at your lfs.I trust you know where Aquatic pet city is,in Table View. The corral,limestone or oyster shells dissolves very slowly.This means the carbonates are released very slowly and won't make your water to hard.You will only need about 2 big hand fulls,in a net bag or nylon stocking,for every 200 liters. You obviously will have to test the Ph and Kh every so often.But that should be general maintenance. The buffering effect is so gentle,sometimes the Kh will rise by 1 degree but is enough to keep your ph stable and that is what want,no sudden changes and stable ph.
my ph is something that i know i should ignore but still haunts me.as stated most fish are now captive bred and have adapted to various water conditions and a lot do actually very well to the point of spawning...but then there are some which do not and as luck would have it those are the ones we(i)am always after.so lets say you live in jhb and would like to keep and breed for arguments sake honest to goodness german blue rams(not the asian type).now i know the water coming out of my tap is nowhere near acidic or neutral.what do i do?is RO the only way?
Yes, unfortunately. It is ironic, however. You pay to take everything out of the water with reverse osmosis. But now you have to pay again, to put the right stuff back, or your fish will suffer! Do not use pure RO water. The TDS is something like 10-20ppm and will send your fish into osmotic shock.
