Advice needed for new Discus Tank and new community tank please :)

Hi Everyone,

I am going to be upgrading my main tank to a 468lt - 1.3 x 60 x 60 for my big fish and then will be setting up my 224lt (current main tank) 1 x 56 x 40 for my discus (x4) giving them 56lt each roughly (excl. displacement) - very excited!
so I have been breathing, eating and sleeping fish (and aquatic plant) keeping these days and have spent many an hour each day, reading, researching and learning as much as I can, feels like there should be smoke coming from my brain by now :burnout: lol! (and my bf thinks Im crazy - he told me!)

Anyway, I am planning both tanks as best I can to ensure that I am doing it right from the start to the best of my ability, and would appreciate some guidance from the pro's :idea: (I apologise in advance for all the questions I'm about to ask in one go...I am sure there are going to be many more to come along the way too)

Discus tank:

I have read so far that a light sandy substrate is best for Discus and that this helps reduce the peppering of the pigeon bloods - for this I was thinking of pool filter sand - is this recommended? I then would like to have a planted tank, and since the discus prefer low light and a higher temp, I have read that amazon swords and anubia's are 2 of the best plants to plant in a low lit, higher temp discus tank, are there any other plant suggestions?.

I am also not sure what the best substrate would be, that I could put under the pool filter sand (if this is recommended) that would be nutritious for the plants that will not take away from the look of the white sand and also can you please tell me if it would be absolutely necessary if I were to use fertilisers such as Prof. Dirk's or the Seachem or Microblift products and the like to have another type of substrate below the pool filter sand to give the plants extra nutrition? (Fertiliser - I am still researching exactly what I will use - currently using seachem range).

Then for the lighting - would it be sufficient to use 4 x 25w T8's - Hagen Powerglo - housed in Boyu 25w fluorescent lamps? I have read that 1w per gallon would suffice and with this lighting I will have 1.6w per gallon - is this good enough for the plants and for the Discus?.

For the filtration, I have a Dophin 1300 external canister filter as well as a Boyu internal powerhead 700l/h - total of around 1700 lt p/h - turning the tank 7.5 times per hour. I would also use a bubble tube with a pump to oxygenate the water.

Is there anything else I should be considering here that I have left out or any other suggestions?

Community Tank:

This tank I am either going to purchase already made (going LFS crawling tomorrow) or will have one made from scratch - have 3 quotes for this already... the only thing detering me from having the tank made is the fact that I really want a wooden stand and have not found anyone that can make this for me as yet... only the metal stands so far... if I buy one already made, I can find one with the wooden stand that has a cupboard. I will decide on this tomorrow after visiting a couple of LFS's.

For the Substrate - I was thinking of using Seachem Black Sand substrate - this appears to be a good option as far as being good for a planted tank as well as being good for my loaches and I really like the look of it - is this recommended and does anyone have a better suggestion?

For lighting, I have read and read and read and there are so many options, I understand that most recommend the 39w T5's x 4 or so (probably more, but I am yet to find out what housing is offered so I can wrap my head around this), and someone has mentioned LED (I have not got a clue about this) and if I calculate that I should have 3w per gallon for plants such as glosso then that would mean at 468 lt / 123.63 gallons, I would need 370w lighting - what is the best way to achieve this? what sort of fitting would be best? and which globes?

Filtration, I have not yet decided, but have been reading about sump's - is this a better option for this size tank? Is it relatively easy to use? never used it before, but it seems to look easier to work with than a canister, and easier to clean... I would then need to have this built along with my tank... I would also still use an internal powerhead for movement/circulation..or should I just stick to an external canister and if so what would you recommend (again there are so many options and I am not sure if you get one that is big enough for this size tank - I have read how some people use 2 and I would rather not have to do that).

I have ordered the following plants that will need to be considered:

Cryptocoryne Lucens- Crypt
Rotala rotundifolia- none
Glossostigma elatinoides- Glosso
Cryptocoryne Wendtii 'Green- Green Gecko

and I currently have the following plants:

[FONT=&quot] Bacopa monnieri – moneywort/[/FONT]Water hyssop[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Giant Anubia[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Amazon Sword[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Anubia[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Java Fern[/FONT]


Fertiliser: if i were to use the seachem substrate mentioned above, then what fertilisers should I be using in conjuction with the lighting to be recommended and the nutrients supplied by the substrate?

I really appreciate you taking the time to advise me

Many Thanks,
Candice

 

The size is great for your planned fish.
Having a sandy bottom looks good but creates more work.
the best is to go bare bottom. Its easy to keep clean.
Peppering is genetic

 

Hi Mattie,

Thanks for the response - I am really keen on a planted tank...although there are other options I guess, I have seen something stunning where someone made little glass boxes and put a little subtrate in the boxes and planted the plants in there (wish I could remember where I saw it)... that could work or else I could attach the plants to the driftwood - best for anubia's anyway.. hmmm, might go for a whole new look then actually.. going to look for some inspiration considering a bare bottom tank and see whats out there...

Thanks,
Candice

 

have a look at aquazulu's posts
My fish room

 

Yes thats it!! looks amazing

Tropical Aquariums South Africa

 

Something else I forgot to mention is that I am also exploring the C02 option through Sean from 'The Planted Aquarium' and will more than likely do it, but only once everything else is done and dusted

 

Its possible to go with low light and no co2 if you use java fern.

 

Ok great then thats another option for the discus tank... the C02 I will only use for the community tank were I will have glosso and the other plants that I have ordered

 

Hi Aqua,

I am just going to reply quickly as I have a very full program at the moment.

I agree with Mattie and others about a substrate free tank for discus.

You could consider a fine filter sand base as that can be cleaned relatively easily. If you have a good Ancistrus (note NOT Plecostomus) to do some cleaning up then the waste accumulates as a nice pile of droppings and can be removed quite easily.

Driftwood is excellent for discus tank ornamentation, but note that I say driftwood, not the mopani logs that are sold as driftwood in the lfs. You need something that almost gets to the water surface.

Anubias are also excellent plants and can be attached to the drifwood to look natural, but Java fern is also quite good. Apologies that I mention this here, but the genus name of these plant is Anubias with the "S" attached to the name, not the apostrophe s, this seems to be a South Africa first again, I don't know where these misunderstandings come from.

My fertilizer was developed with discus in mind and would work.

I would use less light than what you propose, discus don't like a strongly lit aquarium.

Your filtration with this internal powerhead sounds too strong as it is going to cause a Victoria Falls type current in the tank which the fishes won't like. I would advise that you read through the very long thread on filtration that we have had as good biological filtration is the make or break of discus keeping and unless you have good biological filtration your fishes will not make it. You have looked at Aquazulu's fishroom, but note those filters, mine look very similar.

That's all from me.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Hi Prof. Dirk,

Many thanks for your time and response.

I will be going for the bare bottom option with the driftwood, please confirm if this is in fact driftwood that I have x 3 pieces, Pic number 2 is the one I intend using in the Discus tank as its also a nice tall piece with anubias (thanks for correcting that for me) and java fern already attached.



I dont have an Ancistrus, I only have 2 x cory's and had the pleasure of watching a pleco grow to around 30cm and sadly I had to then donate him to my LFS (this was one of the first fish sold to me along with a 30lt tank when I first started fishkeeping, which I very quickly upgraded, so I wont be going down that road again lol) Once the tank is set up I will def look into getting an Ancistrus (or is this only if I do use a sand substrate). How will a bare bottom tank affect my neons, rummy's, clown loaches and cory's - I wont be able to move them to the community tank or else they will become food... if they will not do well in a bare bottom, I can always give them to a friend who I know will look after them well...

For the lighting would you suggest using only 1 or 2 x 25w T8's rather? I made an error, I meant to say 2 x 25w T8's not 4 the lamp only holds 1 globe and I have 2 lamps (was very tired at that point...)

When you mention the filtration, I take it you are referring to the community tank internal filtration - do you think that the 700lt p/h will be fine for a 1.3m community tank? I have used it in my 1m tank now for about a year and a half and most of the community fish seem to like it, I have caught a few of them swimming in the current, then swimming back and diving into the current again lol - I have seen my kuhli's (posted a vid on TASA of this in the beginning), rope fish and the tucan fish doing it... the glass cats also seem to like it very much. I will not use this in the discus tank, but would rather like to use a Dophin 1300 canister filter which I already have and the bar for the outlet that circulates the tank with little current, is this ok? thats 1000lt p/h for 224 lt tank (excl. displacement) - turning the tank 4 times approximately with regular syphoning since it will be bare bottom as well as weekly water changes.

I have sent you a PM (on APSA) and have asked for your price list, so I can purchase fertiliser and discus food from you.

I will read through the filtration thread you have referred me to, to gain better understanding and I thank you for all your advice

Kind Regards,
Candice

 

Correction: Meant to say 2 x 25w T8's not 4 in the Discus tank

 

Hi Candice,

A quick reply during my tea break:

Logs look ok, I was thinking of ones that are not so thick and therefore do not take so much space, rather just thinner branches.

Ancistrus are good whether with or without substrate. Speak to altum about getting the black ones with the white dots, but they must be a reasonable size or else the discus eill have them for breakfast.

Neons are no good because they can only survive lower temps, cardinals are better, Rummy noses fine, Clown loaches?, Corys, depends which because many also do not like higher temps.

Lighting now sounds ok.

No, filtration I am referring to your discus tank, have you read the thread? Read it because it answers your questions, and you need to study this carefully, that 4 x per hour business does not do the trick. Bars for outlets not good, you do want that surface sheering effect with discus, I would have to give you a long explanation why.

Just one more thing, I think that you will find that in that tank where you have your discus at the moment, you might be surprised at the amount of muck in that course gravel. Also it does not allow the discus to pick up fine bits off the bottom which is actually quite important. Fine consol gravel would be ok if you so want to go the gravel route.

Kind regards,

Dirk

 

Look at this tank for some ideas. This is the tank of one of my friends on the angelfish forum and this tank is in Salt Lake City USA. You can see the fine gravel medium and the logs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMOsb_jRoPU&feature=relmfu

 

Wow thanks, firstly those Discus are beautiful! I must say I like the light substrate, I am going to go and look for some nice pieces of wood tomorrow, one of the LFs's in the are has a large selection at the moment... I think what I will do for now, is take the substate out of the current Discus tank, and see how it goes and if I like it that way, then before I set their new home up, I can make a decision to either do bare bottom or thin layer of white sand substrate as the video you shared..

Thank you for all the other info, it is much appreciated Prof. Dirk. I'm really enjoying the learning and planning and look forward to seeing the end result

I will go and study the filtration post now as you have suggested, I have not had a chance yet, and then I will gain a better understanding of the filtration so I can do it right in their new home.

Kind Regards,
Candice

 

PROGRESS:

New Community Tank (not Discus):
So, I have paid the deposit on my new 468lt tank with sump, and cannot wait to get it next Friday whoohooo! :dancing:

I have gone with a metal stand for now, and will call a carpenter out once it arrives so I can get a wooden cupboard made around it in dark wood, to hide the sump... has anyone ever done this and has some pics so I can see how it looks please?

I am going with the Seachem Flourite Black Sand substrate with a thin cap of black river stone (small and smoothe for the loaches), which I think is going to look fantastic! <-------- small smoothe river stones to cap the Flourite

I have been advised that my calculations as far as the lighting goes is serious overkill for the new tank, so will rather go with 4 x T5's 54w - how does this sound?

Right, now its time to go and read about filtration for the Discus Tank.. getting there slowly but surely

Have a good weekend!
Candice

 

Hi Candice

Wrapping a metal stand with wood is easy. You can do it yourself. I did it with my 1.8m.

Take a cutting list of wood sizes you require to the wood shop, choose your color, wait for it to arrive, and then assemble like a puzzle.

Pics are here: http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/showthread.php?8048-The-House-of-Uaru

 

Hi Mxz,

Your tank looks fantastic! and its amazing that you built that cupboard around it yourself! It looks as if it could have been purchased that way, its exactly the look I am going for. I have never built anything in my life before, so this would be a great challenge for me... would need guidance, but I am sure builders will help me if I give them the measurements of the stand hey... thanks so much for this, I feel very inspired and excited to do it now

Kind Regards,
Candice

 

It's easier than you think Candice. Some of my panels are stuck on with magnets.

Builders will be able to help you yes. If you need help with anything just shout.

Doing it yourself will give you greater satisfaction.

 

Thank you mxz, will take you up on that offer

 

Hi Everyone,

Here are the pics of Discus Tank with the substrate removed - bare bottom - so I can try it out and see how it goes before they are moved to their new home and I have to decide if it will be with a thin layer of white sand or without any substrate, it takes some getting used to, but now its easy to syphon out the muck in the evenings, and make sure the tank is always spotless, and they love picking food off the bottom as Prof. Dirk mentioned There are a few grains of gravel left here and there, but majority is out, I did the best I could under the circumstances.



On the new main tank (468lt)note, I am very excited to get my new tank and sump on Friday, and want to say a special thank you to @Altum who was extremely helpful with the design and a few other things, he has a tremendous amount of knowledge new tank is scheduled to be up and running by the end of the month, and I am going with partly ADA Aquasoil Amazonia II and Seachem Flourite Black Sand as substrate for new communit tank.

Have a good week,
Candice