Advice needed, canister or sump

Hi all.

As the topic suggests I need some advice re canisters vs sump.

Scenario: got given a 4ft tank incl fish and rock etc. Also included was a eheim classic canister (the 350 if not mistaken)

Now I only have 7 fish in the tank and the filtration is IMO pretty much borderline and will need to be upgraded before I stock more fish.

Currently i have 2 electric yellow chiclids, a chinese golden algae eater, a bristlenose pleco, 2 khuli loaches and one catfish.

The tank will probably be stocked with compatible chiclids/malawis

Thus my question of canister vs sump.
Im leaning towards a sump myself (increases water volume. never had a sump and will be a nice project for me) but before I commit I would like more advice from you all.

For a sump Im also thinking of a few different designs but lets get the whole canister or sump thing out of the way first.

Oh, and the tank is top drilled. Two holes on each side on the back panel. Same height.
Thanks in advance!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

@a3aan99 ,

This is a topic always open for debate as different people have different preferences and views

However, personally, I am a big sump believer although I have to also admit that sometimes there are circumstances where a good canister is sufficient

A 4ft with small fish like tetras and danios or rainbows I would say you ok with a good canister
With Malawis where you often need to slightly overstock and thus a bigger bioload, I would go with a sump
As you said, extra water volume, possibly more media etc..

The other beauty of a sump for me, is the ease of cleaning.... especially with a bigger canister
I always battled to even move the canisters (ok.. they were the big Dophin C2400) but it was always a mission
With a sump I can clean it on my own without a problem
If your tank is already drilled.. what a pleasure..
But... this is just my 2cents

 

Thanks @MariaS

Im largely leaning towards a sump filter, even more so after your comments.

I double checked my canister now, its rated 440lph so its definitely not good enough and will need to be upgraded.

Cost wise, looking at a decent canister vs a sump it might cost me roughly the same (I'm not talking fluval or eheim canisters here, maybe dophin or tetratec)

So I'm thinking to go for the sump idea and DIY it as much I can. This means that I need some more advice

As far as sump design goes, is it worth putting in a refugium with some plants to deal with nitrates? (There won't be a lot of plants in the actual tank itself)

Thanks again!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

Its a pleasure @a3aan99 ,

Cost wise, it depends on how much DIY you prepared to do yoursefl..
A Dophin C1600 ' i think' must be around 2k...
Im sure you can get a 1.2m sump and pump for that with some change for media
You might spend a bit more on media for the sump as it will take more media than the canister and you need the pvc piping so all in all the sump might cost you say R400 more
This depends, if you pick up a second hand one or a second hand tank and add the compartments yourself you might spend less
But at the end of the day, there is no seals that leak in the long run, no pipes to disconnect when you clean, no impellers that pack up..

The refugium... depends a lot on space you have available
There are a people that do it and they say it does help but most of them have very big and very overstocked or very high bioload tanks with very big sumps where if you take out the space for a refugium they still have ample space for loads of media
The media is the most important
Strictly speaking, under normal circumstances and with a good maintenance routine and water changes you should not have a major nitrate problem
Even if not at zero, it stays within acceptable levels

With a 1.2m (I assume) sump, if you take away the space for a refugium, the inflow compartment and the pump compartment
you dont have a lot of space left for media so in that size sump and its application, I wouldnt bother with it

The other alternative to a refugium if you really want some plants to help with nitrates, a lot of people have some pothos plants growing on top of the tank in a corner, just with the roots in the water and the plant cascading outside the tank
I have two Philodendrons growing with the roots in the water, one on each back corner of the tank
I have mine in pots but Cesar has his pothos just with the roots in the water

 

The plants looks quite nice

I have a 2ft tank that I thought of changing into a sump but i see you mention 1.2m.


Will the 2ft be ok? (Way too small if I'm adding a refugium I know)
A 1.2m will double my water volume though...


Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

A 2ft... is.. 60cm right...

If you take the water in and water out with space for your pump that leaves you with.. say 30cm which is not much
If you make space for heaters in the sump instead of the tank...
It will work but if you going through the trouble and you stocking with Malawi cichlids which usually you need to overstock then if you can, rather go with a 1.2m.

Maybe have a look around, sometimes you pick up 4ft tanks without stand or canopy or anything else on Gumtree for very cheap
They not great as a tank maybe but to convert into a sump they ok
This is now obviously up to you
If you go with the 2ft, i suppose you can get a bigger one at a later stage if it's necessary

 

Thanks, I see ill have to rethink this and do some more research.

I'd rather do it proper the first time than changing after a few months. Lets see if I can find a 4ft or how much a sump will cost from the lfs.

One more, any recommendations on filter media? Ceramics, bio balls, biohome, k1/k2, mixture of above? And what do you think about a tumbling or fluidised filter bed?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

Sump for the win!, you can double the surface area of filtration for half the price thereby making maintenance less frequent imho its more flexible with what media you can use and the pump rating etc.. also quieter in my experience.

 

Lets face it... it is better to sacrifice a little and do it right first time instead of having to go through the trouble and added expense later
I still believe you can pick up a second hand 4ft and do the whole thing for not much more than a canister

As for media... K1 fluidized is tops...
Then Matrix from Seachem, ceramic and lava rock is good too
I dont like bioballs ( Im referring to the plastic ones that have no holes)

We running a combination of K1 (mine is not tumbling yet as I was buying some at a time) but Cesar is running a full K1 fluidized bed on his big tank, matrix, ceramics and some lava rock
@Cesar also bought another product a few months ago which I cant remember the name now, fairly new on the market here and not every LFS has it.
Fish for Africa and Wazeers had some
Its square blocks probably 1 and half size of a cigarette box, they beige in colour and made of extremely porous material
He is running quite a bit of that on one of his sumps and is very happy with it. I will try and get the name of it.

 

Before you start an sump is always good. But just to confirm what size hole is drilled. If 25mm or less your canister will be more valuable. Normally when tanks arw drilled at the top its for the canister pipes to enter under the sliders. So not more than 20mm holes so your returns will have to be slower than your canister to prevent overflowing.

 

Hi Barry.

You are right, the holes are 25mm and meant for canister pipes. I have not done any flow calculations yet but figured ill be able to plumb 3 of the holes as overflow and one as return and it should give me decent flow.

Do you think it will work?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

Big pro for a canister - does not flood when power goes out, sump all depends on your design and water level in the sump.

Either way - try and be energy wise. if you are moving water up a pipe it takes more power than just circulating in the tank.

Later Ferdie

 

Forgot to add controlling flow with valves in in and return sides as well.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

If using an 25mm hole the your tank connector will be 20mm so in the end you end up with 15mm holes so in all fairness im all sump where i can but. Here your option is side or back filter or canister or drilling you need minimum 50mm hole for an decent flow.

 

Internal box filter but steals from your dt. But as Ferdi says a bad sump will let you chuck your ir tank awayand forget about it. And always always drill an small hole above be the waterline on the return pipe for the siphon break

 

So not even with 3x 25mm holes for overflow will I get enough flow?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

If you have an overflow return to the sump it can never flood your house when the power goes out provided you didn't overfill it when doing a wc.

The thing I like best about the sump on my biggest tank is the aeration. The water literally falls 700mm before the sump adding valuable oxygen to the water for the bacteria.
When the water is pumped up again I have it set up to create fairly robust surface movement adding more oxygen for the fish. I must add, when I had 60 - 70 Malawis in the 800l tank I ran a sump and two canisters (a very large Eheim and an FX-6 ).

 

You can try but all you need is one fish or small leave to block it. And it happens quick. Then you flood the room even with an 60cm sump. Your flow rate you will have to look ay an 1000-1500lh return most cheap pumps with that volume wont be able to make the head (hight) i would suggest minimum sump size to be 3ft. If you can have it drilled to 50mm while its empty so much better. The shops around us does do it. I have an 40mm drill bit but even that you end up with 32mm.

 

Thanks for all the advice.
It sounds like I'll get a much better flow rate with a decent canister.

The return pump i had in mind is rated for around 3500lh (prob around 2000lh with elevation) but then it sounds like the overflow lh rate will be my limiting factor.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

Have the tank drilled a sump is always fun and usefull especially with Malawis if one needs an time out. I always leave space in my sumps for fish. And also chuck all my ghost shrimp in There to help with cleaning