A bit of concern maybe?

I have read in a few other forums as well as this one that more and more off us do water changes straight from the hose, I do the same, just the whole idea off changing 100 - 200lts with a bucket seems time consuming that we don't all have the time for it anymore. Now if we use something like Prime or Safe with the water changes and we got carbon in our filters we should be okay right? Well I like to think so...

My real concern comes in when I read that some hobbyists use hot water from the geyser to warm the water to the right temperature before the change. Now I have two problems with that. First, if we go and measure the TDS in geysers, the count is on average 6 times higher than the tap water, which is in itself 4 times higher for consumption.
My second concern, and this is the real one, is the fact that most hot water systems runs through copper pipes. Now that copper leaches into the water which makes the copper count in that water much higher than usual. Copper damages the gills and the organs, especially the liver. Now you will say "but I've been doing it for years without any problems". Sure you might not see anything, but your fish is suffering, slowly but surely we are poisoning our fishes and although you might not notice anything, your fish that is supposed to get 8 years old, dies after 5 or 6 years.
Because of all the extra heavy metals we put in the water through the hot water system it just takes the carbon so much longer to get rid of it all and in the mean time fish are poisoned. Just think if you don't run any carbon in your filter.

Now please everyone, I'm accusing anyone, this is just my personal opinion through research and I am just putting it out there to think about. I am sure there will be someone with a different point of view and I would love to here about it. Heating the water through the geyser is much easier, but I believe it is not safe...

 

I agree...I use the kettle with RO Water

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Your geyser is (usually) also made from copper, which could theoretically also leech into the water.
I think the persentage of leeching is so infinitely small however that it should be of almost no consequence.
Something like Scape Trace has 13 trace elements, including copper, and it shows it is invert safe.
The persentage of 0.0005% is seemingly nothing to worry about.

 

And cold water does not run via copper pipes?
I live in a fairly old house (36yo) all my original plumbing is galvanized steel, new additions to the house, all the plumbing is copper.
When I lived in CT & ESL all my plumbing was copper.
Anybody ever measured the amount of cu in the water?
In what form is copper most toxic?
What is the toxic level to fish, what is the level of cu from copper pipes, how much of this is ingested by fish, and assimilated in the liver and organs?
Do products like Safe/Prime bind cu making it safe?
How much cu is removed by carbon from the water column?
How do you know when fish die prematurely from cu poisoning and not from overfeeding, bad tank hygiene, and/or a host of other possible causes?

 

I guess im sticking my foot in this but I agree 100% with @Jwh.....

Our cold water runs in copper pipes too....
Also the percentage of hot water from the geyser to cold water to take it for example to 27deg is minimal
I use the tap mixer and its almost fully open to cold to achieve 27\28 for the rays

Just as a matter of interest from Seachem's website:


Description

Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and saltwater. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and detoxifies ammonia. Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Prime® is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime® will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

 

Eish, true story whatsaname.. Without empiral evidence, its all speculation

 

This is from a paper from a student from the university of Virginia on a study of water heating systems, as they call them in the US, we call them geysers. I might be wrong but as far as I know copper also dissolves pretty quick in hot water...


Here comes the science:

The insides of a hot water heater contain metals that can, and do corrode. Some of the pipes in your home that are not made of PVC may have lead soldering. Hot water will dissolve metals, especially lead, much quicker than cold water will. Not to mention that over the years of daily use of drawing gallons throughout the day in cycles causes the water from the local utility, with all of it’s impurities to collect and precipitate in the bottom of the hot water heater. This is a prime breeding ground for bacteria. Perhaps they cannot survive in an environment where the water is around 140°, but as soon as the water cools down enough due to a power outage or extended leave (if you turn off your water heater), all the necessary nutrients are there in an 80 gallon soup.

I personally saw a demonstration by a company that was in the business of manufacturing and selling water distillers for the consumer market. They had 2 five gallon glass jugs filled with water. One of the jugs was filled with the water that been taken from an 80 gallon water heater that had been in use for a few years, and boiled down from 80 to 5 gallons. The other was filled with distilled water. While the distilled water was crystal clear, the other had a 3 inch layer of precipitate containing heavy metals, impurities, and bacteria. Truly a revolting sight. Also, ask any gas or electric utility worker or plumber who does work and repairs on water heaters and they will confirm this and probably offer a few horror stories of their own.

 

@Whatsaname , I dont think anyone is trying to discredit what you say

What Im saying is that, if your cold tap water is at 20 deg and you add a small amount of water from the geyser, its so minimal that i dont think it is such a big problem
Also prime neutralizes heavy metals so the above, together with the use of Prime should not allow the small amount of geyser water to affect your fish...
That's my humble opinion

Also remember that while you talking 200l water changes, some of us are doing water changes on 1500l, 2500l and a massive 3500l tanks
RO water and kettles just dont work on these volumes....

 

With respect, this is hardly a scientific answer, it just says that water from a waterheating system, which is actually a waterboiler that feeds warm water to the central heating system, heating the home (and I believe is not a geyser), appeared dirty vs distilled water which appeared clean, nothing else. It doesn't even identify, with any data, what the precipitate in the dirty water was composed of.

This is also does not sound if it is really the geyser where drinking water comes from

I'm not disagreeing that water from copper pipes may lead to higher (insignificant/high/dangerously high?) levels of copper in tank water, and may perhaps or perhaps not, be risky to the inhabitants of fish tanks.

There are a number of reasonably good scholastic papers available on copper leaching from water pipes, and under what conditions, e.g pH this becomes problematic. This could lead to better informed decisions with actual data to consider in deciding how to make a water change from copper plumbing.

I do not believe that filling a bucket from your copper tap and copper waterline and adding this to your tank will be significantly different than doing it by hosepipe connected to the same tap and waterline.

My 2c worth....

 

I get what you are saying @Whatsaname but we don't have a choice. I can't worry about that too haha. If I can drink the water so can my fish. Today's hoses aren't as toxic anymore and some are not treated with chemicals in the plastic. The hose I got had a huge disclaimer saying its chemical and herbicide free. Back in the day there was lead and asbestos in the hoses so that might have been a issue back then. If you don't leave your hose in the sun it should stay safe as heat from sunlight breaks down any plastic.

There's also a seachem product called cuprisorb that takes out copper, so if you are really worried about copper you can use that. But with all that said I wouldn't worry about it. I think for the most part that our water from the taps are cleaner than most of the wild areas anyway. Just watch a river monster episode about the amazon and see how the locals are polluting that river system. The riverino's as they are called live on the river and keep a fairly modern household with all the bleaches and soaps and fuel from their boats and they don't have a sewage system there also.

If you prime, you are fine. If you don't, jy is stout.

 

+1

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I don't think the copper is an issue, at all. That said, it is an issue for soft-water fish to adapt to tap water in areas where the tap water is harder than average. The bigger issue that no-one has mentioned, is that recycled municipal water contains a great deal of hormones or hormone-mimicking chemicals. While some of these might not affect fish health, there is a good chance that some do. So while it is for the most part expensive, I try to do my water changes with RO water, and I add Seachem Replenish to restore to the 2° hardness that is a good overall balance for my planted tank. I used tap water for a 25% change a while ago, and overnight lost two barbs and a loach. Note that I used Tetra Aqua Safe, so it wasn't as if I was careless. The rest of my fish I could save, and they were fine after three days. But I will never trust our municipal water again. So back to the OP: Copper is the least of your problems, and easily dealt with. The other issues are not always trivial.

 

I am one of those that mix hot and cold water from tap as OP says. I have been doing it for years. It is believed that old copper pipes are safer than new ones as over time a coating forms on the inside of the pipes that prevents copper from contaminating into the water. Contamination also takes a while and is not instantaneous (give or take water standing still in copper geyser for less than 5 hours is safe for human consumption), so I have my whole household shower on water change day which empties the geyser, then about an hour later I do my water change which allows the water to heat up but not stand long enough to get contaminated enough to become a poison as such.