Plecostomus now Banned!?

[Asgar]

Can someone please confirm this report which is now circulating.

"I'm sure we've all had this fish at some point in our lives. But authorities have now banned this fish because it has caused major problems throught the world, the worst cases being Mexico & the Philippines. Apparently they are causing problems in Richards Bay as well. So now the common & hi-fin Pleco will be banned from the pet trade." (C.Wayne)

[Henk Hugo]

yes correct

Liposarcus spp. Plecostomus

[SalmonAfrica]

Henk, do you have the new blacklist?

I think it's rather silly though. Plecos aren't even established pests (they're not even sure if they're a threat, just a "possibility"). Think about Goldfish, Carp, Swordtails, Guppies, etc. They're pests as well, hell, the govenment knows that they're pests. But because of a possibility, they're banning plecs?

[Henk Hugo]

This is the list that went into Goverment Gazette 3 April 2009. Gazette number 32090. Notice 349 of 2009, Department of Enviromental Affairs and Tourism.....

Abramis spp. bream spp. indicates all species
in the genus
Acantharcus spp.
Acheilognathus spp. bitterling
Acipenser spp. sturgeon
Ameiurus spp. bullheads
Amia calva Bowfin/Mudfish/Dogfish
Amphilius spp. Golden African kuhli
Anabas spp. Climbing perch/Climbing fish
Anguilla spp.
Aphanius spp. minnow
Aplocheilichthys spp. killifish
Arapaima gigas Arapaima
Bagrus spp.
Barilius spp.
Bathyclarias spp. Catfish
Centrarchus spp.
Chaca chaca Frogmouth catfish
Channa spp. snakeheads
Chela spp.
Chetia spp.
Chiloglanis spp.
Chologaster cornutus
Chondrostoma spp. Nasling
Chrysichthys spp.
Cichla spp. Peacock cichlid
Colossoma spp. pacu
Coregonus spp.
Cottus spp.
Croilia spp.
Cyprinodon spp. pupfish
Docimodus spp. Catfish
Elassoma spp.
Electrophorus electricus Electric eel
Engraulicyprus spp.
Enneacanthus spp.
Esox spp.
Eutropius spp.
Fundulus spp.
Galaxias spp. galaxias
Gambusia spp.
Gasterosteus spp.
Gephyroglanis spp.
Alien Invasive Species / Freshwater Fish SANBI 18 November 2008 invasives@sanbi.org 2 of 35
Glossogobius spp.
Gobio spp.
Gymnallabes spp.
Heterobranchus spp.
Hucho hucho Huchen
Huso huso Beluga sturgeon
Hydrocynus spp. African tiger fish
Ictalurus spp.
Idus idus Silver/Golden orf
Jordanella floridae American flagfish
Lampetra spp.
Lates spp.
Lepomis spp. sunfishes
Leptoglanis spp.
Leuciscus spp.
Liposarcus spp. Plecostomus
Lota lota Burbot
Luciosoma setigerum Apollo shark
Malapterurus spp.
Marcusenius spp.
Mesobola spp.
Micropterus spp. (except the 3
species in Category 2) Bass (except the 3 species in
Category 2)
Misgurnus spp Weather fish
Myleus spp. Brown metynnis
Neochanna spp. mudfish
Neomacheilus spp. Loaches
Notemigonus crysoleucas Golden shiner
Notropis spp. shiner
Oncorhynchus spp.(excluding
rainbow trout) Trout / Salmon
Ophicephalus spp. Snakehead
Opsaridium spp. barilius
Oreochromis spp.(excluding
Oreochromis hybrids in zoning
category for aquaculture)
tilapias
Oryzias spp. Rice fish/Geisha girl/Golden mede
Osmerus eperlanus Smelt
Paragalaxias spp. Paragalaxias
Perca spp. Perch
Percina spp. Percina darters
Petrocephalus spp. Mormyrid
Petromyzon marinus Lamprey
Phoxinus spp. Minnow
Plecostomus spp. plecostomus
Pogonopoma spp. catfish
Pomoxis spp.
Protopterus spp. Lung fish
Pseudocrenilabrus spp.
Alien Invasive Species / Freshwater Fish SANBI 18 November 2008 invasives@sanbi.org 3 of 35
Pseudorasbora spp. Whiptail sturgeon
Pseudorinelepis spp. catfish
Pterygoplichthys spp. plecos all species
Pungitius spp. stickleback
Pygocentrus spp. Piranha
Pygosteus spp. stickleback
Rhinelepis spp. catfish
Rhamdia spp.
Rhinichthys atratulus atatulus Black-nose dance
Rhinichthys atratulus obtusus
Rhodeus spp.
Rooseveltiella spp. Piranha
Rutilus spp. Roach
Salmo spp. (except brown trout and
Atlantic salmon) Trout and salmon
Salvelinus spp.
Sargochromis spp.
Sarotherodon spp.
Schilbe spp.
Serrasalmus spp. piranha
Siluris glanis European/Wels/Waller catfish
Thymallus thymallus Grayling

[SalmonAfrica]

Hold on - are these the only blacklisted species?

[Henk Hugo]

correct :D

[Slojo]

yes correct

Liposarcus spp. Plecostomus

So this is the common pleco?

[SalmonAfrica]

Ok then I'm quite stoked - I see no mention of Potomotrygon or Parachanna. :D

[Reafer]

so i csn talk about my jewels and Herotilapia multispinosa on the forums now? :p

[Henk Hugo]

its not law yet - JZ is tooooooo busy flying SAA

[Reafer]

why does it say then :

Liposarcus spp. Plecostomus
Plecostomus spp. plecostomus
Pterygoplichthys spp. plecos all species

Are those all the common pleco?

[Henk Hugo]

those are all the synonyms for the same thing....

from planet catfish:


735. Pterygoplichthys ambrosettii (i:4, k:2)
736. Pterygoplichthys anisitsi (i:1, k:0)
737. Pterygoplichthys disjunctivus (i:2, k:7)
738. Pterygoplichthys etentaculatus (i:1, k:1)
739. Pterygoplichthys gibbiceps (i:31, k:154)
740. Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus (i:16, k:76)
741. Pterygoplichthys lituratus (i:6, k:0)
742. Pterygoplichthys multiradiatus (i:1, k:2)
743. Pterygoplichthys pardalis (i:24, k:164)
744. Pterygoplichthys parnaibae (i:4, k:1)
745. Pterygoplichthys punctatus (i:3, k:7)
746. Pterygoplichthys scrophus (i:9, k:43)
747. Pterygoplichthys sp. (1) (i:1, k:0)
748. Pterygoplichthys sp. (L154) (i:0, k:0)
749. Pterygoplichthys sp. (L164) (i:2, k:4)
750. Pterygoplichthys sp. (L313) (i:1, k:3)
751. Pterygoplichthys sp. (L347) (i:1, k:2)
752. Pterygoplichthys sp. `Rio Callaru` (i:3, k:0)
753. Pterygoplichthys weberi (i:16, k:7)
754. Pterygoplichthys zuliaensis (i:1, k:0)

[veegal]

On the bright side it'll stop all the pet shops from selling Plecos to everyone with a tank as an 'algae eater' and not telling them that their little 45cm tank is too small to keep a pleco in. :)

[Henk Hugo]

true Vee - they will be in the trade for a little while to come still....

[Madam]

So this is the common pleco?

I'm also curious - which plec is this? (googled the latin name, google's got nothing)

[Henk Hugo]

see this post: http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/showpost.php?p=11365&postcount=12

[butcherman]

so what will we have to do to clean the algae in our tanks now? will acestrieds also be banned?

[Henk Hugo]

Do you see any ancistrus on the list of names i posted?! i sure dont...

Its ONLY common plecos and their family thats banned. including the gibbiceps

[SauRoN]

Henk what's a good alternative for a cleaner fish?

I have always liked Synodontis Upsidedowns, but I'm not really sure they do much.

The Petricolas are also very cool, but quite small and very expensive especially in schools.

[speedz]

hoplos are nice imo

[Henk Hugo]

well no fish are cleaner fish....

you do get fish that eats algea like ancitrus and ottos

[SauRoN]

On the subject of Algae I'll just make another topic...stupid glass scratches.

[butcherman]

well no fish are cleaner fish....

you do get fish that eats algea like ancitrus and ottos

ottos not as effective imo

[Henk Hugo]

ottos are more effective... MUCH more

[Slojo]

ottos are more effective... MUCH more

WTH is ottos?:embarrest:

[LiftCrazy*]

Otocinclus - Dwarf sucker mouth catfish

My Ancistrus do a great job at keeping everything nice and algae free.

[LanceP]

Ottos are really cool fish and are constantly busy eating algae, but not very hardy...

[SauRoN]

I would easily have confuse that Ancitrus for a Pleco.

Wonder if they would survive two Oscars?

[Reafer]

So since Herotilapia multispinosa is not going to be blacklisted anymore can i sell my fry on the website? i got loads.....

[butcherman]

are freash water shrimo sill going to be banned?

[wito-zn]

So what happens with the ones that are already in peoples tanks? Like me I have two.

[butcherman]

So what happens with the ones that are already in peoples tanks? Like me I have two.
nothing what can they do

[wito-zn]

True. There is nothing that we can do. I suppose that it is also only there to stop the LFS from selling them and breeders from breeding them.

[SalmonAfrica]

The only problem I can see coming from the ban is people who want algae grazers for larger fish tanks, or tank with bigger fish (eg: oscars, arowana) without worrying about their tiny algae eater getting snacked on.

The next best thing would be to look to the more expensive plecos, such as Adonis sp., which grow to a good size and will do very much the same job as a regular pleco, with the addition of looking much more attractive. Such fish are also much less likely to be released into rivers - who in their right mind would throw such a costly thing away?

[wito-zn]

Such fish are also much less likely to be released into rivers - who in their right mind would throw such a costly thing away?

I agree there Salmon. But there is still going to be some rich spoilt kid who's daddy buys all the stuff the kid wants and when the kid has gotten tired of it the fish get flushed.

[butcherman]

they should make it posiable to apply for a licence or something to be able to keep certain things. not just ban it.

[SalmonAfrica]

I agree there Salmon. But there is still going to be some rich spoilt kid who's daddy buys all the stuff the kid wants and when the kid has gotten tired of it the fish get flushed.

True enough, but also bear in mind that, besides the common, Hi-fin, and Ancistrus species, the rest of the pleco family aren't very hardy. True, there are some of the others which can tolerate lower temperatures than they would experience in the wild, but as far as I know, those species are imported with such irregularity it causes no concern about them threatening any of our wild fish stocks. The rest will most likely perish in our slightly cooler waters, remembering that our rivers often drop below 20C.

[wito-zn]

Oh ok something new learn't. interesting to know.

[Gaawie]

Sp how is this going? Can we get the updated blacklist..?

[Gareth]

there is no updated list yet, as far as I know the list is still under review and will only become law in April 2010 if they keep to schedule. I might be wrong, the best person to ask is Henk

[Henk Hugo]

no news on the fish sside at the moment.... loads of news on the reptile side

[wito-zn]

thanks henk

[Dane]

To echo butcherman...

Freshwater shrimp???? I've always wanted to keep these!

And also not so bleak about the common pleco being banned. I've always felt sorry for the guy the way petshops continually sell them to people with tiny tanks as an algal cleaner. Such nonsense!

Thanks for the info Henk!

[Big G]

Hey Henk,

I noticed that Nemacheilus Spp. Loaches was on the list?? Does this mean ALL Nemacheilus Loaches are going to be banned?? What happens when the loach has two or three scientific names, but only one of those names appears on the list?

I was looking at the Zodiac Loach, which is down as Mesonoemacheilus Triagularis, but also comes under Nemacheilus Triangularis!

Cheers
Big G!

[Henk Hugo]

you will have to get the latest correct name as fish tend to get moved around

[Big G]

As far as I can work out, the name Mesonoemacheilus Triagularis is the current name, but its so unclear! As ever, no definative answers!

Cheers
Big G!

[Henk Hugo]

Depends on whats on the invoice when it comes in :D

[Big G]

I guess so!

I also guess that the blacklist doesn't mean you can't keep them any longer if they are already part of your aquarium, before the bill was passed? Just that you ccannot buy or sell them?

Cheers
Big G!

[Henk Hugo]

If its on the black list its illegal to keep and they can fine/arrest you for keeping the animal unless you have the correct permits

[KiazerG]

http://www.bowfinanglers.com/images/nickv_pleco_072806.jpg

This is an invasive Pleco in a Florida River (USA)

I had one in my old Koi Pond and he got to a large size without any care whatsoever so I can imagine these being quite a threat

[Henk Hugo]

that is indeed the common pleco that will be illegal once the new law comes in

[Scaly]

in the past there have been many discussions about the black list and fish you cant keep. 2 Species come to mind Texas Chiclid and African Jewel, that although banned, were stoked by almost all LFS I have been into...so I doubt we will be seeing the end of old Plec...

I would suggest however that JZ get hold of Henk and appoint him chief inspector...maybe a nice 4x4 and petrol allowance, not to mention an accommodation allowance with a large commission on fines to LFS that stock black listed fish ;)

ps shrimp would be nice, but having kept them before (1992), I know that fish can't resist them...nom nom nom

[Henk Hugo]

yay! free 4x4 - its a goverment job so do i get like Hummer?

[sarf]

im suprised that noboby is blaming importers who supply the petshops with the black listed fish

[KiazerG]

I agree with Sarf... these guys know the way things work and should be held partly responsible!

oh and I work for goverment btw ;)

[Henk Hugo]

I agree Sarf - Dep Agri at the airports also need to carry some of the blame as they let it in

[Whipme]

The problem is ignorance. If the so called experts at the lfs can't identify their fish correctly, how is jannie and sipho at the airport going to know the difference?

[KiazerG]

Jannie and Sipho hahaha... had the funiest mental picture ever of these two on duty at the airport lol

[Henk Hugo]

they are the plant and animal inspectors at the point of entry - of course they must know wtf the stuff looks like

[Whipme]

There's about 120 species listed there, then there's variations of those species. Are you telling me they can effectively identify every single one of those fish visually? They might know a few key species or a bunch of things to look for (like freshwater rays, or shrimp or things like that), but there's no way that they'd be that good at their jobs. The people with that sort of knowledge are not going to be working on the frontline...

[Henk Hugo]

i know - you must see the drama when we import plants... they have NO idea whats going on

[Whipme]

What's the default response? It's illegal, pay up? Or do they take your word for it when you say it's not blacklisted?

[Henk Hugo]

no they take it away and kill it or burn it if its plants. they purely match the invoice, to the black list and import list attached to your permit.

[Whipme]

So a spelling mistake could either make or break a shipment of legal or even illegal stock...

[Henk Hugo]

not spelling mistake no - a fish being listed under an old genus coming in as SPP yes

[Henk Hugo]

right - BUMP

Just spoke to DEAT - they are looking at this becoming law end of this year/early 2011....

[JesseG]

great, i have 3 of these bad boys already, time to dispose of the evidence, lol...just kidding guys...

[JulsM2908]

Hi All
Dare i Ask...
Are Turtles on the blacklist?

[Henk Hugo]

very much so

[JulsM2908]

All of them or are some legal?

[Big G]

All Turtles, even Terrapins too I believe??

Cheers
G!

[JulsM2908]

Ahh....
Thanks very much.!

[Henk Hugo]

all of them