Are Yellow Labs supposed to have Vertical Black Bars on it's body?

[catfishblues]

Hi,


All the yellow labs I've bought were pure yellow as juveniles, now that they'be grown up most of them exhibit vertical black barring on the body and black cheeks.

My question is are they supposed to have those strips because Males, Sub males, and possibly females all have these strips in my tank, theories from the net are:
Dominant males have these 'black masks' when breeding,
In-breeding / mixed species breeding,
poor water quality, however there are fish in my tank without these markings, and i'd like to think my water as top notch.
Examples below:

Without markings or less prominent , female and male. i think

1201012011

Males and females with excessive black markings

120121201312014

Any insight is appreciated
J

[azurekoi]

The Yellow Lab as we know today is a far cry from the wild fish... Look at the Latin root of the specific species name: Caruleus - means "Blue" - wich the type specimen collected in the lake long ago was... so - this means that the fish we know today is a man made fish,carefully selectively bred to show the yellow we know...

Whether they are still all L.caruleus or have been mixed with other species to create the butter yellow colour,I do not know for sure,but have seen many of them develope these black bars as they become sexualy mature - to a greater or lesser degree... Actualy have a look at your 4th pic - you can see a diluted overlay of the wild blue colour on that fish
Was at a Malawi breeder in Taiwan a few years back who was working on breeding the blue colour back to be the dominant colour - some of his males whee rather impresive - not showing the dark barring though....
Maybe sarf can shed some extra light on these little "Butterballs" and the variations with their colouration?

[catfishblues]

Right you are Azurekoi! and apparently all the L. caruleus in the hobby were bred from 1 pair alone. If that holds true, it means fish can be bred successfully for many generations without having to bring in wild genes. So maybe it takes out the possibility of 'inbreeding'.Yeah they do some pretty crazy stuff in TW, i hope its just selective breeding and nothing artificial. I'm not proud they're responsible for flowerhorns, parrots and subsequent multi-coloured variants. Then again like you said maybe many of the breeds in the hobby today are a far cry from the original wild species.In all honestly I'd rather it be butter yellow or blue, it annoys me almost that you can't tell when they're juveniles, unless there's the possibility that I'm not feeding them a nutritiously balanced diet

[azurekoi]

Don't think its diet mate - its latent melanophores that brings forth the black barring - these are genetic,not food induced... Keratin in food is about the only thing that can in high concentration,alter the natural colour of our fish - making them more "red".

[sarf]

Actually..the labidochromis carelleus is found in a few colour forms in the lake..ranging from white,to bright yellow..so the yellow color is not man made,it is found in an area known as ruarwe or a collection point known as Lions cove,in lake malawi.However wild caught carelleus are scarce and the ones found in petshops have been inbred and in a lot of cases crossbred so they do not look as good as their original forms..based on the pics..the one with blue face and bars could possibly been crossbred

[catfishblues]

This confirms my deepest fears and makes me very sad. I guess that happens with a species that's so easily bred...

Thanks for the advice

[Reedfish]

Actually..the labidochromis carelleus is found in a few colour forms in the lake..ranging from white,to bright yellow..so the yellow color is not man made,it is found in an area known as ruarwe or a collection point known as Lions cove,in lake malawi.However wild caught carelleus are scarce and the ones found in petshops have been inbred and in a lot of cases crossbred so they do not look as good as their original forms..based on the pics..the one with blue face and bars could possibly been crossbred

Yup, this is a variable species.

The ones with black bars are just a colour form.
The pure yellow ones are highly desireable, and hard to come by.

[catfishblues]

challenge accepted...

[Reedfish]

The top 2 fish seem to be pure yellow.
Why don't you try and breed from them - if they are a pair. Am sure there will be a demand for the youngsters.

[sarf]

If they are cross bred fish,please do not breed them to supply other fishkeepers..

[catfishblues]

Reedfish: Firstly I want to get separate the striped and clear ones,

sarf: after the realization that I've most possibly been sold cross breeds, it's not likely I would do that onto others...

[Corne]

Same here I have 2 pairs and two of them has black bars on them

[catfishblues]

All from the same batch?

[Corne]

Yes all from the same batch from one of our sponsor shops

[catfishblues]

Impressed we are not....

[Corne]

Yes Yoda impressed we are not

[Reedfish]

@Reedfish (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=2081): Firstly I want to get separate the striped and clear ones,

@sarf (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=126): after the realization that I've most possibly been sold cross breeds, it's not likely I would do that onto others...

They don't look like crosses to me. Even the ones with black bars.
As has been said above, this is a variable species. And some have the undesireable (well what we term as) trait of having black bars. :musicus:

[sarf]

Lab careleus which have stripes are the white form from chesimulue island in lake malawi.the fish in the pic looks like a cross between that form n the electric yellow form.I have seen wild caught variants of the yellow careleus...had no black on face or flanks

[slayer]

I believe these species were supposed to be bright yellow. They were first caught by a German scientist (if my memory is correct) and he took a breeding pair back home with him and introduced this species to the hobby.

[scotty]

I have no idea where some of this information comes from! Have any of you ever seen wild caughts? They are the purest yellow you will find with incredible black in their fins, especially the dorsal. These from a very specific area in the lake. there are also some colour variations of the same species.
Could not agree more with sarf.
The ones with the lines in have been bred from crossing. Very poor quality fish from the far east. Apparently the yellows are very sort after over there. A person needs to keep your fish pure by not keeping species together that could cross breed due to a lack of male.

[Mayhem]

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/l_caeruleus.php

Hi guys follow the link above to see the article of the history of the Yellow Lab. Also see the pics and read the writers comment at the end. Personally I have F1's from the Lions Cove variety. Besides the black on the fins the dominant males seem to have a little black patch on their foreheads but not the black barring as found in the pics here. Caeruleus are born with barring and sometimes when the fish is stressed you can see the barring becoming more prominent (when the fish are in prime condition the yellow causes the barring to "hide in the background" making it difficult to see with the naked eye). The barring is only found on the body of the fish and not the head as is the case here and is not black but more of a light brownish colour on the fish with the darkest bars (the bars on some fish look like yellow but a different shade). Hope this helps.