GBR Diagnosis

[DarylA]

General
Where do you stay? - Kempton Park, Gauteng
How long have you been keeping tropical fishes? - Over 10 years
How long has the tank been running before you added fish/this fish? - 8 months
What fish do you have in your Tank (type, number and size)? - Pair GBR(3cm)
When did you last buy any new fish? - GBR introduced 6 weeks ago

Which food are you feeding and how often do you feed? - Tetra Prima(2 x day), Frozen Tropical Quintet(1 x day)


Disease
Describe the problem that the fish is having (behaviour, breathing, excretion (droppings), food intake, colour)? - Heavy breathing, Darkened colour, a little lethargic especially in mornings, slightly thin.
Is the fish eating? - Yes but not in the mornings
Has the problem occurred before?: - No
Have you treated the problem and how? - WC
Have you had any other problems in the past? - No
What were they? - N/A
Did you treat for these problems? - N/A
How? - N/A

Your aquarium & Maintenance
How big is the tank. (L x b x h)? - Jebo
How many litres of water? +/- 50l
What type of filter do you run? - Internal Power Filter feeding built in overhead trickle filter
What is IN the filter? - Internal(Coarse Sponge), Trickle(Siporax, Ceramics, Bio Balls)
How many litres per hour is the filter rated for? Measured 300l hour
How often do you clean your tank? - Weekly
How do you clean your tank? WC using gravel vac, sponge to wipe
How much water do you take out for Water change? 30 percent
Do you prepare your water for water changes? How and what do you add? - Water prepared with Seachem Neutral Regulator
What water do you use. (Tap, bore hole, RO)? - Tap
What substrate do you have? - Standard Aquarium Gravel
What else is in the tank (Rocks, plants, fake plants, shells, anything else)? -Palindaba Rock, Java Fern, Java Moss

Water parameters in your aquarium
Describe the water (smell and colour)? No bad smell, crystal clear
Temperature of the water? - 29
General hardness (GH)? - Unfortunately not measured
Carbonate hardness (KH)? - Unfortunately not measured
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite (No2-)? 0
Nitrate (No3-)? Unfortunately not measured
pH? Neutral
How did you test these? Have you checked the expiry date on the test kits? - Sera test kits, not expired.

Lights
What light do you have? 12" T8 Blue Moon
How long is the light on for? - 12 hours
Do you have lots of plants in the tank (real or fake)? - 2 Small Java Fern and some babies, small clump Java Moss
How do you fertilize the plants? - I don't

If possible, can you post some pictures of
(1) The sick fish
(2) A close up of the sick fish, and/or effected area
(3) the full tank.

[jedigenie]

really sorry about your situation DarylA, if you do a search on the forum you will find quite a bit written about mystery GBR deaths and the causes. Rest assured, its highly unlikely you did anything wrong.

Best of luck
Eugene

[DarylA]

jedigenie Thank you! @Forum The male is not showing any signs of distress.

[jedigenie]

DarylA, you most likely feel I wasnt being very helpful with what I said but the sad truth is that Oriental breeders have all but ruined the fish for the hobby. The fish we get in our LFS have very under developed organ systems, this leads to premature deaths. No medication for that. From my experience the females fade away (like you described) while the males look superb 1 day then dead the next.

As much as I love the look of the GBRs, I dont feel they are a good choice for our tanks unless you can get good stock somewhere.

[azurekoi]

Agree with Jedi - I have seen litterally thousands imported... You land them perfectly,pre adjust the pH to that of the breeder/supplier and still lose more than half(If you lucky...) - Most Asian breeders have this horrible habit of keeping them in anti biotics and THATS where the problem lies...

[DarylA]

Ok, not a good prognosis then. I was aware of what you guys are saying but they seemed to be doing so well! They have spawned twice in these 6 weeks so maybe my best bet is to try and induce another spawn. I could then raise artificially and get a batch of fish not affected by antibiotics.

[Altum]

If you pursue the raising and succeed, wish you well!

If you want great Local Bred (off fish I imported from several European breeders), or occasionally European-bred fish, then PM me.
I can seriously say there is a major difference between the health and quality, of these fine fish and majority LFS fish.

Most of mine are not that bright when we get them ,and begin to shine !
...almost colouring up every day!

That is how rams should be, not necessarily bright from the start.

In 3-4weeks I will bring some WILDCAUGHT Ramirezi to further boost my local breeder stock and for dedicated collectors.
SO, it's not all doom-and-gloom for these feesheez!

[DarylA]

Thank you for your input guys! My GBR female is doesn't seem to be getting any worse at this stage but unfortunately not any better either. I am seriously going to pursue inducing a spawn. Altum Not all doom and gloom! I will pm you.

[cools32]

Totally agree with the comments from Altum. The SE Asian stock that is common in LFS are simply 'dire'. They look pretty in the shop, showing great and intense colour then after a few weeks, start to grey, and deteriorate. Most SE Asian Rams (I don't call them German Blue Rams, for they are not 'German', even though some unscrupulous LFS sell them as 'GBR' despite them being bred on Asian Fish Farms!!!) I have kept, have lasted only 6-12 months, despite being kept in 'idylic' very Soft Water.

European bred stock is usually much better (Czech, Dutch and German, or F1 stock from wilds), but the genuine 'Wilds' imported from Colombia, are usually the best stock you can buy, and usually 'hardier'.

Just DO remember though, these beautiful and charismatic fish :love:, are very demanding in water quality, and the water has to be as soft as possible.

[DarylA]

Hey guys, sadly my female has died! However, I am getting new stock from Altum.

[GG13]

Sorry for your loss DarylA , but I'm sure the ones you get from Altum will be beautiful.

I love these fish, I just don't have the space for a dedicated Ram tank... One day when I'm big...

[Marco]

Hi Guys,

Just a thought on this - Ram males are very "frisky" and will not leave any female alone. In the small tank environment they get bugged by the males continuously, and eventually they succumb to the stress of the process. I have had "some" luck by splitting the males and females for periods and then reintroducing them to each other.
This has in other words not to do with where they come from, but is due o their nature.

That said - I agree with everyone's comments about these guys - simply put, the ones normally available in RSA is a terrible waste of money and energy.

Regards

Marco

[DarylA]

GG13 Thanks! I am looking forwrd to getting them and am dedicating a standard 3ft to them for now. Marco The male definitely was a bit frisky with the female. I am getting a bigger number of fish and they will be in a bigger tank so I'm holding thumbs.

[Skye01]

DarylA, I unfortunately had to get rid of my male Ram as he started chasing all in sundry and I've got breeders in the tank that he was in, so he had to go. Just a word of warning... They like the Kribs do tend to become aggressive when breeding, so just be aware of that and make sure you have lots of caves and flat rocks for them to breed in and on. If you have any success in breeding I would really be interested in a pair from you...

[azurekoi]

DarylA - Dither fish Dude... thats the key. Have used small,fast surface swimming fish to great effect when breeding Dwarf cichlids(Kribs.Apisto.Aquidens.Analochromis.Teleog ramma.) in the past... Something like a small shoal of Pearl or Zebra Danios work a treat...
The theory is that in defending their territory and spawn from the "evil menace up above",the pair bond is strengthend between your Rams... Male spends more time in (futilely) hammering the Danios and not the female

[DarylA]

Thanks for your input guys! Skye01 There is going to be ample breeding/hiding spots. I was actually thinking of using 45 litre tanks for spawning once pairs are established. If I get it right - with Altum help - you are more than welcome! azurekoi I was thinking of dithers but wasn't sure what to use. Obviously a surface dweller is ideal but I need something tolerant of higher temps, softer water and preferably from South America.

[azurekoi]

Then your only hope is for some Pencil fish.... Expensive option though... just close your eyes and go with zebra or Pearl Danios - they where born to be Dither fish....lol

[Altum]

@DarylA (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=1288) - Dither fish Dude... thats the key. Have used small,fast surface swimming fish to great effect when breeding Dwarf cichlids(Kribs.Apisto.Aquidens.Analochromis.Teleog ramma.) in the past... Something like a small shoal of Pearl or Zebra Danios work a treat...
The theory is that in defending their territory and spawn from the "evil menace up above",the pair bond is strengthend between your Rams... Male spends more time in (futilely) hammering the Danios and not the female

lol
azurekoi , that fish must be the butt of many a joke, hey!?

I hope you mean Anomalochromis

[DarylA]

azurekoi It is funny you say that cos I think the longest any danio has been in any of my tanks is the 30 seconds it took a needlefish I used to have to eat it! Lol! What is your take on Endlers as a dither fish? They are a bit of a pretty fish to have just for getting battered - pun intended - but they prefer the higher temp and I am sure they could adapt to softer water. Also, the fry would be a good conditioning food. Please, nobody shoot me, I am just asking!