View Full Version : Electricity costs
Henk Hugo
07-07-2009, 07:53
Hey guys,
I got bit of a shock this morning after i bought R500 worth of prepaid electricity. Before the eskom price hike i used to get 1109 units.... i now get 837... thats 272 units less!
I run 6x1.2m tanks in an enclosed room, the 2.5m in my lounge, a koi pond with a 0.75kw Speck Hydrostar and a swimming pool with a 0.45kw speck pump.
All of the heaters add up to 2600w. the lights in the fishroom alone is 636watt and the lights on the 2.5 add up to 340watts. Now in winter the heaters stay on pretty must the whole time.... so lets say 80% of the time the heaters are on.... thats 2080w/h add the lights and it comes to 3056w/h just on the fish tank for ever hour that the light and the heaters are on...
at the moment i use +- R1300 worth of power a month and i need to cut down. my 1st job will be put poly sheets on the 3 non viewing sides of all the tanks... on hte 2.5 this wont work as it is viewable from 3 sides....
I plan on completely cover the 2.5's sump with poly... and also to take out the 300watt Jagers in the 1.2m tanks and replacing them with the correct size....
What do you guys think?
I'm having much of the same problem as you know Henk. Except I pay more for my electricity for some reason :( I'm estimating that my new electricity bill with this latest increase will be approximately R2100-R2400 per month. I currently use about R1400.00. Any suggestions to bring the electricity cost would help, so bring it on!!!!!
Henk Hugo
07-07-2009, 08:06
i have 150sq/m worth of carpet tiles here that i am going to put down in the fishroom over the tiles to try and keep some of the heat in
theosmit
07-07-2009, 08:13
...heaters add up to 2600w. the lights in the fishroom alone is 636watt ...
If you have a dedicated fish room you can close the door when you are not there so that the temp stays higher - you will use less electricity for heating accross all off those tanks. Lightning could be made more efficient with some reflective material behind (on top of) the lights so that light going up eventually comes down to your plants where you want it rather than being absorbed by a dark canopy.
Sometimes physics is just a b!tch :frown:
Henk Hugo
07-07-2009, 08:15
all of what you said is already like that :D
NOW I'M GLAD MTS HAS NOT INFECTED ME YET
***** L O (really) L *****
NOW I'M SO GLAD MTS HAS NOT EFFECTED ME YET!!!
I am so glad you added the YET......MTS is highly contagious! :D
Well, I have got a second tank lying around. It's my first 40l that I started with 5 months ago. But the flat is too small to set it up as well. So only have the one for now. But I have considered setting the small one up in my study or office as a small Betta tank show-piece... heehee
Well, I have got a second tank lying around. It's my first 40l that I started with 5 months ago. But the flat is too small to set it up as well. So only have the one for now. But I have considered setting the small one up in my study or office as a small Betta tank show-piece... heehee
The first symptoms are showing.....hahahaha :D
Henk Hugo
07-07-2009, 08:28
So who wants to come help cut poly sheets :D
I'd love to Henk. Can I ask that you book 2 tickets for me and my wife to come down? Plane of Blue train... whichever suits your pocket...?
NOW I'M GLAD MTS HAS NOT INFECTED ME YET
MTS is highly contagious
I agree there wholehartedly with Vee. It is VERY contagious, and once you have it, death is the only cure. Just got tank no. 5 last night. And that is within a space of 5 months LOL
Just got tank no. 5 last night. And that is within a space of 5 months LOL
One per month - not too shabby there Carping :D
Would it not be better to heat the room? This is the dilemma I face at the moment. I have about 20 tanks in my fish room, each with at least 1 heater. Is the cost effective solution not to heat the entire room rather?
How would one go about this though?
Slagter our fish room, holding approximately 30 or so tanks, generally stays at a temp of around 22-24 degrees. Yet the heaters still work at night when the overall temp drops dramatically. I've considered getting those wall heaters (not sure what you call them now, I've gone brain-dead - the square ones which are wall mounted and you can paint over them?). Those are economical and are said to work quite well. I've never actually sat down and done the calculations as to what the savings would be though......
Henk wouldn't it make more sense to heat the room rather, instead of individual tanks?
Surely like one R300 wall panel heater will be just enough to push up the general room temperature so it isn't TOO hot, but at the same time lowering the need to per tank heating to the bare minimum?
Henk Hugo
07-07-2009, 14:10
no idea dont think so....
Space heating is recommended for dedicated fish rooms - the only problem (not insurmountable) is regulating the temperature accurately. This requires at least 3 thermocouples and a good controller.
But it makes for an easy backup solution.
I have the same problem..i have a fishroom in my back garage..currently running 8 x1,2m,3x1m tanks,n 45cm tank..i want to do what a former malawi breeder from somerset west used in 2 of his fishrooms..lined all walls n ceiling with polystyrene sheets,always kept doors n windows closed n used small heater in the room..the place was hot all d time..i really have 2make a plan..i'm basically only paying electricity with the fish i'm breeding.
Gilbertr14
07-07-2009, 21:20
It costs me about 100 bucks a month to ran a 240 and an 80L
theosmit
07-07-2009, 23:55
...lined all walls n ceiling with polystyrene sheets,always kept doors n windows closed n used small heater in the room...
Wonder what is cheaper - maintaining room temp or tank temp?
There are two factors:
1. The heat loss which should be kept to a minimum as mentioned above and addressed by sarf. Insulation will do wonders. The temp of the room in relation to the water temp should be kept to a minimum, but it does not help if the entire room loses the temp even faster (due to size and lack of insulation) to external conditions. Then you are heating the room just to lose the heat at a faster rate than what your tanks would have.
2. The second factor is the heat source's efficiency and hence the cost of electricity in relation to the heat generated. A panel heater is very effective, but a heat source where you want it (in the water) might still be more beneficial. Remember that it cuts out once the temp is reached. This calculation would be quite difficult since we can't easily monitor how many hours in a day the tank's heater is working. The answer to this question would be interesting...Anyone feel like sitting down for a very long day with a stopwatch?:wacko:
Gilbertr14
07-07-2009, 23:59
Well, our 300w heater in our lounge tank is about 10 units a day on its own.
Not too warm our lounge neither.
We noticed that when we set up the tank
Im thinking i can probably cut down on eating out,buy cheaper wine etc. and i can still set up the new planted tank with all the lights.Maybe even not have any kids and get one more tank.....
Henk Hugo
08-07-2009, 06:14
The problem i have with the fishroom being closed the whole time is some looooooooovely fungus growing on the walls....
The problem i have with the fishroom being closed the whole time is some looooooooovely fungus growing on the walls....
U get a good antifungal addative from nova that u add into your paint when u paint, it works well i use it in all humid high damp areas like bathrooms . All my customers have been very happy of how it works and its fairly cheap
Henk Hugo
08-07-2009, 09:13
ah ok - i'll give that a go...
Sorry for going slightly off topic here, but on the paint issue - is there any paint that gives off very little odour and would therefore be 'safe' to use in a fishroom????
butcherman
08-07-2009, 10:24
Sorry for going slightly off topic here, but on the paint issue - is there any paint that gives off very little odour and would therefore be 'safe' to use in a fishroom????
i know Dulux makes a Dourerless paint but i dont know if its fishie safe
but i dont know if its fishie safe
Yeah, just watch out for something like that. Just because it is odourless, it doesn't mean that it is safe. Same as your normal LPG gas. LPG gas is actually odourless. The manufacturers introduses a odour into it so that you can actually smell it. If it wasn't for the smell they put into it, a lot more people would have bad experiences as you could imagine
Thanks guys...another question then.....has anyone actually painted out the room where their fish are in and what was the outcome? I need to desperately paint our fish room and I'd like to add that antifungal additive which Reafer mentioned but that would mean rehousing over 30 tanks etc whilst I do it and there is just not enough room for that? Any suggestions????
Fish Fantasy
08-07-2009, 11:17
If i was in Capetown Henk i would come and help you but I'm in jhb so that really doesn't help! sorry!!! It's the thought that counts!! :)
Thanks guys...another question then.....has anyone actually painted out the room where their fish are in and what was the outcome? I need to desperately paint our fish room and I'd like to add that antifungal additive which Reafer mentioned but that would mean rehousing over 30 tanks etc whilst I do it and there is just not enough room for that? Any suggestions????
I am going to see my paint suppliers after lunch , he really knows his stuff, i will find out for you and i will get the exact name of the nova addative
Cool Reafer - would you also mind checking whether there is a 'fish safe' paint available? One with a very low odour/vapour ??
Yea was going to do that aswell :bigsmile:
Sandtex Wall Care
Product Description & Uses
Sandtex Wall Care is a high quality, washable wall finish, which is ideal for exterior use.
Sandtex Wall Care is suitable for application directly onto new cement plaster, fibre cement, concrete, brickwork and various types of composition boarding. It is particularly recommended for fibre cement gutters and down pipes.
Sandtex Wall Care is suitable for direct application to previously painted surfaces, which have been prepared correctly.
Sandtex Wall Care may be applied to metal and wooden surfaces provided an appropriate primer has been used.
Product Benefit
* a premium quality, suede finish coating
* 100% pure acrylic
* exceptionally hard wearing
* excellent washability
* alkali resistant
* can be applied to unprimed plaster
* suede finish resists dirt pick up
* low odour and can therefore be used in odour sensitive places
* rapid drying allows fast re-coating time and labour saving
* inherent mould resistant properties repel mould growth
Properties
Type Synthetic Resin Dispersion
Drying Time @ 25° C Surface dry within one hour
Hard dry within four hours
Re-coating times 1 - 2 hours
Viscosity 100 - 110 Krebs Units
Relative Density 1,23 - 1,26
Gloss Level Suede Sheen
Solids by Volume 36½%
Solids by Mass 44½ - 47% depending on colour
Spreading Rate 8 - 10m² / lt depending on surface porosity
Flash Point Non-inflammable
Application
Ready for use with brush or roller.
For conventional or airless spray, thin with water.
First coat may be thinned by 10% for highly absorbent surfaces, however, thinning reduces opacity.
Use water for cleaning equipment.
Surface Preparation
Surfaces must be clean and dry before painting.
NEW WORK
Concrete / Cement
New concrete must be left to cure for at least three weeks before painting. Rough concrete surfaces should be filled with Sandtex Acrylic Fillercoat.
Fibre Cement
No primer required. Thin first coat with a maximum of 10% water to aid penetration.
PVC (Gutters and Downpipes)
Degrease and sand lightly. Apply direct.
Galvanised Steel
Clean with Sandtex Galvclean and flush with water. Prime with one coat of Genkem 3 in 1.
Ferrous Surfaces (Iron and Steel)
Loose surface rust must be removed by wire brushing. Prime with one coat of Genkem 3 in 1.
Previously Painted Surfaces
Surfaces must be in sound condition. Loose, flaking paint and efflorescence must be completely removed. Any bare metal areas, e.g. nail heads, must be spot primed with Genkem 3 in 1.
Before painting, all existing and evident mould must be eliminated with Tile Doctor Mould Stop. When dry, brush down and wash the surface with water. Allow surface to dry thoroughly before painting.
Old enamel or other oil paint
Must be well sanded.
Chalked PVA or other powdery surfaces
Must be well brushed and sealed with Sandtex Alkali Resistant Primer.
Old cement fibre
hese surfaces should be sanded and a coat of Sandtex Alkali Resistant Primer applied.
Precautions
Do not apply direct to bare metal surfaces.
Do not paint during wet or cold weather conditions, i.e. below 10° C
When buying pre-tinted colours, ensure that all containers are from the same
batch so as to avoid colour variations.
HEALTH AND SAFETY MEASURES
* This material is essentially non-hazardous.
* Always keep product out of reach of children and pets.
* This product should be stored in a cool, dry place 8°C - 25°C out of direct sunlight. Keep container closed at all times - check for leaks.
* FIRST AID MEASURES
* EYE CONTACT
Take care to avoid contact with eyes. In case of contact, immediately rinse the eyes with plenty of water (15 minutes) and seek medical attention.
* SKIN CONTACT
If accidental contact with skin should occur, wash the area immediately with warm soapy water or with a recognised skin cleaner.
* INGESTION
Harmful if swallowed. Drink 3 - 5 glasses of water. Do not induce vomiting. Seek medical attention immediately or call the Poison Information Centre on 0800202655 (Toll Free South Africa only). Other countries please contact your local Poison Information Centre
* TRANSPORTATION
This product is not classified as Dangerous Goods by Dangerous Goods Code for transport by road or rail. Care must be taken to secure product during transportation to avoid spillages
* ACCIDENTAL SPILLAGES
Prevent run off into drains and waterways. Use absorbent soil or sand, inert material. Collect in container for disposal.
* FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Specific Hazards - Non-Flammable.
* ECOLOGICAL MEASURES
Avoid contaminating drains, sewers, rivers etc.
Nova 31 Mould Killer
Description and Uses
Nova 31 Mould Killer is an algaecide and fungicidal preparation for paints, adhesives, grout and mortar under severe conditions.
Nova 31 Mould Killer is a dry film preservative for use in paints, plasters and wood coatings where permanent dry film protection is required on external surfaces subjected to severe weathering and on internal surfaces where high humidity is encountered.
Nova 31 Mould Killer is a fluid dispersion of active ingredients that is easy to handle and incorporates into aqueous based systems and which provides a very broad spectrum of activity against fungi and algae.
Nova 31 Mould Killer is of low human toxicity and consequently it can also be used in interior paints where periodic or constant habitation of the building occurs.
Nova 31 Mould Killer has two modes of action to protect plasters and paints:
* Firstly, it prevents the plaster or paint from serving as the substrate for contaminating micro-organisms.
* Secondly, when the surface becomes wet through rain or condensation, the controlled diffusion of the active ingredients into the wet phase occurs, preventing the growth of micro-organisms on the dirty surface layer.
Nova 31 Mould Killer provides the user with an inexpensive all-round product which with a wide range of applications and a low toxicity to humans.
Note:
If structural defects lead to permanent dampness, the defects must be corrected before a successful application of antimicrobial coating can take place.
Dosage
The optimum dosage of Nova 31 depends largely upon the amount of dirt to be expected on
untreated surfaces and the potential of the local environment to contaminate the treated
surface. It will also be dependent on the susceptibility of the coating to fungal and algal
growth.
The bioactive substances in Nova 31 are irreversibly consumed in the prevention of growth of micro-organisms, and hence a reliable estimate of the expected level of contamination is very important when deciding the optimum dosage of Nova 31 to be used.
For this reason the concentration ranges listed below should be used as general guidance only.
Plasters and Fillers 0.2 - 1.0%
Coatings for inside use 0.5 - 1.0%
Coatings for inside use with high humidity 1.0 - 3.0%
Coatings for exterior use 0.5 - 3.0%
In cases of exposure to extreme weather conditions, or if the coating is subjected to continuous condensation or to rapid contamination with surface dirt, the dosage of Nova 31 may have to be increased above the usual levels.
Properties
Composition: Combination of imidazole, isomeric ketothiazole and urea derivatives
Appearance: Flowable, grayish-white dispersion
Density 20° C : 1.11 ± 0.05g/ml
Viscosity @ 20° C : Liquid
Solubility : Practically insoluble in water and organic solvents.
Miscible in water, immiscible with polar and non-polar solvents.
Stability : The activity will not be affected by short periods of temperatures up to 100° C during manufacture, or by pH in the range 4 - 10.
Toxicity : LD50 acute oral 5 600mg/kg (calc.)
Precautions
Keep away from cultivated plants.
Special care must be taken to ensure that Nova 31 does not enter streams, rivers or lakes containing fish.
When it comes to painting there will always be some sort of fumes when it drys. My paint guy said this is one of the safest u get but still recomends covering your tank for 3 hours while painting.
I would also just like to say that this is what i have been told not from personal experience so i cant say for sure . he did tell me they painted the fish shop next door to his place with it with no effect to the fish
Sorry for the cross post if you have seen this before - but this has worked well for me - both inside and outside tanks .. the story is evolving but a better solution will be found. Read more .. http://tinyurl.com/oeqkbn
https://sites.google.com/a/f-fish.net/home/_/rsrc/1246076630112/images-cabinet/blanket3.JPG
On the paint side ...
If I was in Slaapstadt I would find this product .. BreatheCoat TEXTURE – Hides minor blemishes or for special finishes. Lets moisture out - but no water in. Good thermal properties (one coat application)
Later F
BTW got the parts to build a KiloWatt plug meter thing .... will post if it works.
Awesome stuff Reafer - THANK YOU! :D Please excuse my ignorance here....but which company manufactures Sandtex and do you have an estimate on cost?
I'm definately going to be trying this out - so fingers crossed for me please :)
Its made by Genkem
http://www.genkem.co.za/long_life_decorative_coatings.asp
Its not expencive he told me that, but i forgot to get the exact price sorry :P
he also said it will help if u put a fan or 2 in there to help ventilate
Reafer,,, thank you. That was quite a bit of very informative and usable info.. We are going to do a bathroom sometime,, could use it there too.. That's without the MTS kicking in heavily... :-) Maybe the bathroom becomes a fish room in the meantime.... LOL
Thanks Reafer - I'll look them up tomorrow morning.
Carping - there is ALWAYS space in the bathroom for a small tank.....LOL
One per month - not too shabby there Carping :D
Mmmmm Vee, I might be picking up tank no. 6 tomorrow. Getting a 1200mm diameter, 750mm deep hexagon tank with 9 fishies R650 :blink1:
Wingman001
09-07-2009, 12:37
Yip started six months agow with 1 tank up to 7 tanks! Lounge and kitchen taken up
Getting a 1200mm diameter, 750mm deep hexagon tank
False alarm hahahaha. It turned out to be 1200mm circumference. Had to quickly give him a lesson in the difference between diameter and circumference
False alarm hahahaha. It turned out to be 1200mm circumference. Had to quickly give him a lesson in the difference between diameter and circumference
LoL - I can just imagine it ......"now a circumference means all the way around and a diameter means from one side straight across to the other. Would you like to know how to calculate them?" Hahahahha.
Yip started six months agow with 1 tank up to 7 tanks! Lounge and kitchen taken up
Kitchen? Oh my gosh - you've got MTS BAAAAD :D :p
Wingman, if you have tanks in the kitchen :eek: then I pronounce you the king of MTS :adore:
I've seen on several sites LED's replacing metal halides and normal flouresent lights.TMC or Tropical Marine Centre,manufactures a strip light,containing five LEDs and they claim it produces 33% more illumination at 50cm than 24w fluorescent light.They also claims it only costs 7 pounds per year to run and only needs replacing every 10 years.:idea:
I've seen on several sites LED's replacing metal halides and normal flouresent lights.TMC or Tropical Marine Centre,manufactures a strip light,containing five LEDs and they claim it produces 33% more illumination at 50cm than 24w fluorescent light.They also claims it only costs 7 pounds per year to run and only needs replacing every 10 years.:idea:
Will post a diy on LED lights the weekend,using cannibalised led's.
ps. Wanted to cannibalise it from my ex boss's Audi R8,Didnt get the chance.
Will post a diy on LED lights the weekend,using cannibalised led's
Now that is something I would really be interrested in.
Fish Fantasy
10-07-2009, 08:32
Mmmmm Vee, I might be picking up tank no. 6 tomorrow. Getting a 1200mm diameter, 750mm deep hexagon tank with 9 fishies R650 :blink1:
Carping If you get the tank and it's up and running, please post some photo's we'd love to see it.
Sorry FF, it was a false alarm. The guy didn't know the difference between diameter and circumference
Fish Fantasy
10-07-2009, 09:20
Ahhh! Anyway let us know what happens!
Nothing is going to happen FF. There is no way I am buying a tank that has a 1200mm circumference.......
Fish Fantasy
10-07-2009, 09:46
Geez! That's tiny! Any way keep looking the right one will definately come along.
Gilbertr14
11-07-2009, 08:08
Will post a diy on LED lights the weekend,using cannibalised led's.
ps. Wanted to cannibalise it from my ex boss's Audi R8,Didnt get the chance.
Busy with the same thing, but in blue for night viewing
Busy with the same thing, but in blue for night viewing
Wouldn't red be better for night viewing?
Gilbertr14
13-07-2009, 22:32
Wouldn't red be better for night viewing?
Most night lights are blue?
If neccesary, will use a colour gel with the same light spectrum. Work in the entertainment industry, so thye easy to pick up.
Will post a diy on LED lights the weekend,using cannibalised led's.
ps. Wanted to cannibalise it from my ex boss's Audi R8,Didnt get the chance.
So Slojo, what happened to the post you were going to give us on the LED lighting? I urgently need to get something sorted to improve my lighting set-up......
Guys and Gals - see my new post on LED lights - FishNook
regarding electricity cost and painting fishrooms:
theres alot of paint on the market that is for painting roofs thast got ceramic powder in it for insulation purposes maybe this will give enough or extra insulation on walls and doors and ceilings to help insulate fish rooms
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