Krib aggression - help

[Jenn]

I have a pair of Kribs that have been doing very well and are raising their second batch of fry. The first batch are in the "grow-out" tank.

I had featherfins in the tank with the Kribs but had to move them out to my son's Oscar tank because the Kribs were beating them up badly. The featherfins are doing great now - Oscars are less aggressive than Kribs!

Unfortunately I wasn't at home much this weekend and I noticed only last night that the female has turned her aggression on the male :sad2: She's been chasing him relentlessly; to the point where he was hiding behind the heater & I had to move him out. They have had little skirmishes previously, but never to this extent. He is now in the grow-out tank with the first batch of fry (I'm running out of tanks). His tail fin is shredded and he's looking really beaten up. I've added Rooibos teabags & immune booster (microbe-lift).

I am planning to get a school of African tetras to help dilute the aggression. Problem here is the QT has become a grow-out tank - LOL.

Can anybody suggest anything more/different I can do to:
a) help the male heal & get strong again (IOW - not die)
b) stop the Kribs being such bullies

Thanks for any suggestions...

[HennieRoux]

When Kribs breed they become extremely agresive, as they are good perents most of the time, unfortunately the female does the raring of the fry, an the male is the bystander. I would sugest that you remove the male as you are doing currently if she shows agression, or put in a devider in your tank to devide the male from the female. You can also try putting in some other fish so that the female can take her agression out on them! Then regarding your male, I sugest you keep your water clean and do dailly water changes, and ensure you keep your water temp @ about 26 deg C, and ensure your filter is doing his job. Feed him well, and as long as he is eating, he should be fine. Let us know how he is doing. Good luck!

[oscar freak]

its strange that after 2 spawings she would now turn on him but thats woman for you lol,im sure just a little tlc for the victim should bring him right as rain and then maybe once his healed up try put him back and see,absence does make the heart grow fonder.

[Jenn]

oscar freak & HennieRoux - thanks for the help.


thats woman for you
LOL - I hate to agree with you - but she is being a little B!

[f-fish]

With my kribs it is all about who can see what and when. So I have loads of drift wood and other hard scape (think terracotta pots with exits in the side of back) when they are breeding. I also make sure that I have some plants that I am willing to sacrifice seem like the always want to beat something and if it is a sword or some other plant then that is all good. It helps if the fry have space to explore and if it can be done at different levels in the tank the better. So some wood will be branched all the way to the surface with some java fern etc. Increasing the flow in the tank also seems to help - maybe they are just more tired if the current is increased.

Later Ferdie

[Jenn]

f-fish - thanks. That's given me some ideas on what I can do. Have you found that keeping other fish with your Kribs helps?

[f-fish]

Yes, (my kribs was a integral part of the community tank at one stage - till they caused more damage on plants than what I liked - they love to kill moss) in the end all the other fish will be stuck in the one corner of the tank and both parents and fry will have the run of the rest of the tank ... well that is till the next batch has hatched. Then you have the confusing time when the surviving fry think they should still be part of the clan but in truth they are more likely to be killed by the parents than the other fish. Some like to add dither fish ... i.e. things to chase and keep it interesting. This does make for a more natural behaviour on the kribs side so you might want to consider some barbs or tertas but be willing to loose them if the tank is to small.


Later Ferdie

[Jenn]

they love to kill moss
Huh! Is that why my moss didn't survive - It thought I was just a very bad water gardener!

[abdd003]

Doctor the cause of the head ache before doctoring the headache - The problem is that the male cannot get away and will then also not heal.
I have a similar situation. My kribs are also raising second batch. I have also noted aggression at times of the female towards the male. Remember the female will try and protect the fry, even from the male.
But fortunately I have two factors favouring the male's survival.
1) They are housed in a four foot tank and the male can get away.
2) I have plenty of caves for the male to hide in. The old trick - enough hiding places!
You don't have to buy these. Ordinary cups placed on their sides will suffice. I have also cut plastic bottles and used aquamarine silicone to stick stones/dry wood/substrate so that you don't see the outside of the plastic. Broken pieces of slate works nicely on the inside, where eggs can still be laid.
Another thing experience has taught me - with fragile fish as Jenn mentioned, be carefull of water changes - do them if needed, very often. but only small amounts at a time - the immediate reaction is to go for 20/30% - rather do something like 5% every day - this effect is more river like - fresh water everday with no major changes.
Also remember, everybody has their own ideas - try them and see what works for you.

[HennieRoux]

abdd003 you are completely right, just because things work for yourself, does not mean it will work for everyone else, the best way is to trial and error, and if it works, stick to it, if it doesnt, then try something that will. Same goes for water changes, its always better to do smaller water changes more often, then to do larger water changes.

[Jenn]

Some like to add dither fish ... i.e. things to chase and keep it interesting. This does make for a more natural behaviour on the kribs side so you might want to consider some barbs or tertas but be willing to loose them if the tank is to small.

The tank is a 3 foot high - about 200l. Is that big enough?

I'd really like to get some African tetras (Neolebias) as dither fish but they are impossible to find. Congo tetras will get a bit too big. Would killifish be suitable as dither fish?

Thanks again.

[f-fish]

200l sounds good .. dither fish need to be fast and hardy ... never had killifish so no clue. As a lone dither fish - what has worked for me was a Red-tailed black shark (Epalzeorhynchos bicolor) - they cull the weak and can be rather bothersome causing the kribs to be much better parents. They do live long, love to jump and might outgrow your 3 ft ..

Later Ferdie

[abdd003]

Hi Jenn, Eveything depends on your intentions. Personally, if you want to breed, I suggest you keep only the pair of Kribs in the tank. This way you don't lose a lot of fish experimenting.
You don't state how long your tank is. A three foot tank should be fine, but then make sure you have plenty of caves for the male to hide, when being chased. Otherwise consider a mixed tank where the fish swim at different levels (Middle and top as Kribs tend to stay at the bottom).
My opinion, Kribs in a three foot high tank is a waste of a tank, but the choice is yours. I do not think you should worry about breeding in a three foot high tank, even though it is possible - I regard A tank this high as a show tank which can house some more beautifull larger fish. Not being a fan (have some) I hate to admit, Discus would be better.
My tank is full, for water control, while I know there is no fry. When the female starts hiding, is normally when eggs are laid, I empty the tank to below half. That makes it abot 6 or 7 inches and in your case you have about two and a half feet on top. By the way, my 4 foot tank is not standard - self built to fit under the standard 4 foot tank on a standard 4 foot tank - still holds somewhat more water than a 3 foot tank and has the advantage of length. (When the hobby get's you, in some peoples mind, you do stupid things).
In this way, when feeding, the food gets to the fry easier. Unfortunately, it is at this stage when more regular water changes are needed (WORK!).
However, stay with what works for you.

[Jenn]

You don't state how long your tank is

Sorry I was unclear - I meant a high 3 foot long tank, not 3 feet high - that would be very high indeed - LOL. My arms would have no hope of ever reaching the bottom to scoop out snails :D It's about 60cm high.

[Jenn]

On the weekend I got a school of Synodontis nigriventis (5) and put them in the tank with mommy Krib. Boy! was she sorry she chased dad away because she had nobody to help her chase away the intruders. They don't seem to be snacking on the fry, so that's good.

I put dad back in the tank with her this evening. Initially she chased him, but after a few minutes she was flashing her purple belly at him and making some naughty suggestions for later ;)

He's looking a lot better, more colourful and happily chasing catfish.

I'd still like to get a school of African tetras to dilute the agression even more.

[Gilbertr14]

My kribs ignored my congos and ropes.
Just attacked each other.

Interestingly the male killed 11 of the other females.

This in a 4 footer with vallis, logs, anubias and 3 caves.