What can be wrong.......

[stripes]

My one fish (Mossie,parrot fish) is sick. I do not know what can be wrong with him.

For a few days now I noticed him not eating like he usually do. They get a variety off flakes, pellets, booldworm and veggies.

Last night I noticed him floating upside down, lying under rocks.It seems to me he is struggling to stay upright. He was lying under one of the rocks so I picked it up and he went swimming away like nothing was wrong. But then after awhile he was again upside down.

The other fishies is alright. I can not see any visible injuries or white spots or anything else on him.

What can this be?

:wondering:

[brentnorm]

Possibly a swim bladder problem but I don't know a remedy. Perhaps one of the experts can help.

[veegal]

Stripes can you give us any information on ANYTHING that happened prior to the first symptoms showing? Eg did you do anything different from normal, add more fish, do waterchange etc etc.

It does sound like a swimbladder issue but if we can get as much info as possible we may be able to work it out.

[Fish Fantasy]

Definately sounds like swim bladder!!!!!! I'm not trying to scare you but just give you the basics!!

Swim Bladder Disease

Fish use the swim bladder to regulate buoyancy in the water, i.e. adjusting their relative weight to float without sinking or rising in the water. If the fish somehow gets an injury or disease to its swim bladder, regulating its buoyancy will be hard or impossible for the fish. A swim-bladder problem can therefore make the fish swim unnaturally and experience trouble keeping its buoyancy regulated. This can result in the fish laying on the bottom of the tank or floating on the surface. In less severe cases it can just seem like if the fish was drunk and having trouble keeping its balance. Swim bladder disease can be caused by a number of different causes but the most common causes are:
External factors: If the fish is subjected to external trauma it can affect their swim bladder. External trauma includes physical trauma such as being beaten by another fish, as well as rapid changes in the water parameters in their tank. A rapid temperature increase or decrease can as an example cause swim bladder disease.
Genetic factors: Some fish can be genetically predisposed to develop a deformed swim bladder when they grow older. This problem is usually a by product of line breeding by breeders trying to breed a certain trait in the fish such as long fins or certain colors. The predisposition is unwittingly being line breed along with the desired traits.
Cancer and TBC: Cancer and tuberculosis can cause swim bladder problems if they affect organs close to the swim bladder or the swim bladder itself.
Diet: Dietary problems such as poor nutrition can cause swim bladder disease as the fish don't get the nutrients they need. An improved diet can often help the fish recover, unless the problem has progressed too far. Can also lead to constipation which in turn can lead to swim bladder problem as the swelling of the abdomen prevent the swim bladder from working properly.
Diseases: Swim bladder disease can be a by-product of a number of different bacterial and parasitical infections in the fish.
The problem can usually be resolved by treating and resolving the problems listed above. Damages caused by external factors might be permanent and nothing to do about except kill the fish if it doesn't recuperate within a couple of weeks. You should also make sure that you give the fish their preferred environment if you discover swim bladder problems.

[stripes]

Ok only thing I can think of now is that I have put them from a 270 liter tank to a 150 liter tank about 2-3 weeks ago. And already done some 20 or 30 % water changes on the tank.

Something I can ad is that flossie (the other parrot fish) changed from a purple to a apricot colour since they were moved to the new tank. But mossie (also purple) now have some black stripes on his body.

[veegal]

Did you clean the 150 liter tank before moving them?? Was the new tank cycled before moving them?

I don't know much about parrot fish as it is a fish I personally avoid like the plague so I unfortunately cannot give my opinion on their colour change, except to say that most fish change colour depending on their mood.

[Fish Fantasy]

That could be the problem the external water parameter change from one tank (bigger)to the other (smaller) (rapid water parameter change) This does stress the fish a bit. Colour changes could be mood representation not entirely sure about that one Also as Veegal said was the tank cycled before introduction of the fish to the new tank?

[stripes]

This is a photo of mossie and flossie when they were still in the bigger tank I will take some photos of Flossie to show her/his colour change since they were moved to the 150 liter tank.

Thanks

[stripes]

Yes the 150 liter tank was cleaned and then cycled for a week before the fish was added. And there were 4 platys introduced to the tank a week after the parrot fish went in.

[Fish Fantasy]

A week is not enough to fully cycle a tank, they are probably suffering from new tank syndrom, it takes at least 4 weeks for a basic cycle and six weeks for a bacterial colonie to grow stronger. Keep checking you water parameters because your amonia or nitrite levels might be high due to low levels of benefical bacteria, do a 20% -25% water change every second or third day for a month & also add some start up beneficial bacteria or stability etc. This will help with the cycling process.

Take a look at this site http://aquahobby.com/articles/e_syndrome.php (http://aquahobby.com/articles/e_syndrome.php)

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Hi Stripes,

The persons who breed parrot fish, should not be shot, but should be strung up very slowly on some or other tree, and die a slow and painful death. Why I say this is because all parrot fish are abnormal and have an abnormal backbone structure making them prime targets for swimbladder problems. Swimbladder problems are common amongst fishes such as discus and are caused by a bacterial infection of the so-called sphincter muscle of the swimbladder OR they are caused by backbone abnormalities (these are the genetic factors that Fish Fantasy refers to above). Many fancy goldfishes also have a completely skew backbone as a result of which they are also prone to swimbladder problems. In discus one can treat this with sulphonamide drugs, which are very similar to penicillin, but only about 40% of the fishes recover and very often also suffer from relapses. Those fishes with the backbone abnormalities do not recover, and I fear that your fish will not make it. Those persons that breed these fish are responsible for breeding fishes that in most instances will die from these problems for which reason I am really opposed to parrots. If you would have a careful look at their heads and mouths, you will also see abnormalities. Parrots cannot close their mouths completely as a result of the bone abnormality that they have.

Sorry about the bad news, but that is the bottom line.....

Kind regards,

Dirk

[stripes]

Thanks all,

Yes Dirk, unfortunatly I came accros the other posts about Parrot fish after I got my parrot fish. I also feel it is very crule to breed these fish and have swear to myself to never buy fishes like these.

Mossie, I decided to make an end to his life. I can not see animals suffer like this.

[Fish Fantasy]

Good Luck Stripes you're a stronger person than I am, here's a humane way of letting your fish go:

Clove oil is used to anaesthetize fish and is fatal to fish at doses greater than ¼ ml per litre of water. Clove oil is used in beer brewing and can be purchased through home-brewing outlets. It is also an aromatherapy oil, so try specialty outlets where oils are sold. Keep in mind that clove oil is classified as hazardous and can be irritating to the skin and eyes, and can be harmful if swallowed.

Since fish are cold-blooded, the brain can continue to function for a long time even after the heart and lungs have ceased functioning. Therefore it is possible for fish to recover from deep anaesthesia even if they are apparently dead because they are not breathing and have no heart beat. It can be very difficult to determine if a fish is dead, therefore, once the fish is deeply anaesthetized by leaving it in the solution for a couple of hours, it is recommended to freeze the fish, decapitate it or administer a sharp blow to the head to ensure it does not recover from anaesthesia.]

Hope it helps!

[Dirk Bellstedt]

Hi Stripes,

Sorry to hear the bad news, but I am sure that you have done the right thing in putting poor old Mossie out of his/her misery. BTW parrots are sterile on top of all this because as far as I know they are hybrids. The secret as to what the parents are, is also not out as far as I know?

I also wanted to say to you that I have just been in Germany and have been there a number of times in recent years and visited many pet shops. Not a single one stocks parrot fishes, in South Africa every second shop stocks a school of them. The Germans would have a total fit if a shop did stock them because of the ethical aspects surrounding these fishes, so it just shows how public perception can change things. I think in South Africa, there is so much ignorance about these matters that no one really cares.

Kind regards,

Dirk