Bolivian rams

[viskop]

Ok - so I have been struggling for over a year to get a pair of Bolivian Rams to breed and it happened. After going away on holiday, with a friend taking care of the little ones, I had 7 left.(something to do with the fact that I had crushed flakes for substrate, because the fish stayed hungry - lets not go into that).

As they were maturing I noticed that they sort of hop around the bottom, but at the time didn't think to much of it. Now, 6 months later, they still do that. They do swim when it is feeding time, but still? I have a new batch and they are at three weeks doing the Ram thing and hovering just above the bottom.

Can anyone explain the hopping of the first lot?

Thanks
Morné

[Marco]

Hi viskop,

Firstly, congrats on the breeding success.

You give a bit too little info regarding these fish, but from you do give it sounds like a swimbladder issue. Sometimes fry have problems with the bladder inflating, and thus they never achieve buoyancy. If these fish do not literally propel, they just stay on the bottom, unable to just 'float' at any depth.

Check to see if that is the case, and if indeed, the humane thing to do would be culling them. Please just report back here before you do. . .dont want to be the blame for unnescessary culling.

Rgds

Marco

[viskop]

They can swim up and all over, but they always end up back on the bottom. The "swimbladder-issue" makes sense, but why would all seven have that problem though?

I fed them micro-worm when they hatched, then baby fish food and crushed tetra flakes when they were big enough for that and then crushed tetra bits. I raised them in a bare-bottom 30cmx22x22 tank and did a clean-up with a 10-15% wc every two days. When they were big enough to move safely - I moved them to a bigger tank with substrate,etc.

Is it maybe something I did wrong that caused it?

As far as culling them - don't think I can do that - they are my little babies and are healthy(except for the bottom-hugging) - I take special care to make sure they get enough to eat. I will certainly not breed them, but until they get sick I'll just keep on playing the overprotective daddy. hehe.

[jedigenie]

Yay finally someone else here that enjoys BRs :)

I've been breeding these fellas for a while now and from what you have described I have to agree with Marco. However...remember that these are bottom orientated fish (Mikrogeophagus - the clue is in the name :D) so they always seem to be very near the substrate. Swimbladder issues would see them on the substrate for a good portion of the time since it takes so much energy to keep them off the bottom.

What concerns me in that your next batch of fry are also staying so near the bottom. From what I have seen of my fry they are quite curious and the poor parents have to dart all over the place to keep them in check. I would suggest you have your water checked for high nitrates (quite possibly from the water out your tap even). Failing that, is it not a mechanical issue in that you have a strong current in your tank? This would deffinately keep your fry near the bottom.

Here's a pic of some of my juvies nearly 3 months old. Hope you get your issues sorted mate, send em a PM if you want to compare notes. These guys are easily my favourite fish now :)

9152

Bad pic failure!

[viskop]

Thanks for the response guys. jedigenie - sorry - what I meant with the "Ram thing" was that they hover close to the bottom and anywhere they like - lol. The second batch is fine and I am doing exactly the same as I did with the first batch.

Not a bad idea to have my tap-water checked though.

I have/had one of those sponge filters in the fry tank - so not much of a current.

I love these guys - I had one that used to take food from my fingers, but sadly she died.

[jedigenie]

Hard luck man, sad loss :(

Been trying to convert Marco AWAY from keeping discus to keep these guys, even offered to send him some. He in return wants to convert me to keeping discus...The battle rages on ;)

I really dont get why BRs arent more popular. Hardier than German Rams, no inbreeding issues (as with GBRs), peaceful for a community, ideal water conditions are easy to achieve and BAIE MOOI! I know they dont look great in an LFS tank but once they in a nice tank they really come to life. Not to mention the awesome personalities :)

[Marco]

jedigenie

Maybe we should bury the the hatchet and keep the two together! Haha
Bolivian's are very nice little fish, as are most from the '-geophagus' family. I have long wanted some Wavrini and Cupido cichlids, excellent Discus mates and nice to look at.

viskop
Could be a bacterial issue which caused this, but I doubt it. Most probably, as Genie pointed out-water. Temperature fluctuations when doing w/c can cause this. A steady sharp rise in temp also. There are many variables and even egg damage could cause this. With Discus every single batch that hatch will have some with swimbladder issue.

The problem with these fish, belly dragging leads to collection of all manner of parasites that lie on the bottom. These guys normally struggle with health as they are under constant parasite pressure.
I know its a hard thing to do though, but, as a breeder, you have to play 'God' sometimes. In nature these guys would have been a meal weeks ago already.

Rgds

Marco

[viskop]

Fair enough. I think all those things might have been present during the week I didn't look after the fry.

[Gert Combrink]

viskop, sometimes these little fry, when becoming free swimming, need a period with a low water level, so they can reach the surface and get their swim-bladder sorted.
Well, that is what I've heard/read somewhere...