Torpedo barbs

[JulsM2908]

HI
i recently got given 2x torpedo barbs for my birthday - i think they are so awesome!!!
day one - all ok
day two - i dead... :wondering:

so plus minus 2 weeks later i decide to order some more ...

i buy 3 more

day one -all ok
day two - one dead - another 90% dead - dies hours later
day three - third dead
day four - my original one that was left = dead :evil::evil::evil:
WTF!!!
i dont know what it could be - they all look fine the day before they are dead.

if i do find them busy dying - they cant swim properly and twist and turn and float all over the tank. they seem to still have some control to swim...

then hours later they are dead - when found, their mouths are open....
Any ideas as to what is going on here - all my other fish are fine....

i decided to test my water today and found the following:
PH = 6 - too low
nitrates = extremely high -100
temp is +- 28

please help me find out why i cant keep these guys - i like them so much!!

thanks

[Vis]

Hi Jules what is your ammonia reading?
How acclimate them?

[JulsM2908]

:(dont have a amonia test kit - acclimatised through floating only...:(

[Vis]

Did you by any change compare the dead ones gills to the
ones still living?

[JulsM2908]

no - why - what we looking for?

fish looked perfectly fine - no bite marks - wounds - one's belly looked funny.
otherwise fine -except open mouth.

[Vis]

Do you know if the LPS use salt in their tanks?

[SalmonAfrica]

I see 2 problems there - the high nitrates and the high temperatures. I don't think that thee individually killed off your fish, but working together could have provided a stressful enough environment to do so. Try to bring the temps and nitrates down - these barbs prefer cooler water, preferably below 25C.

[Big G]

Unless I am not understanding your first post, I thnk you answered your own question....

Nitrates - Extremely high??

Do more regular water changes to get teh nitrates down. Start by doing a once off 50% water change, and then retest the nitrates?

Other than that, it sounds to me like it could be Osmotic shock though? Could be either Osmotic or pH shock? Do you know what pH the place you bought them from had them? Most LFS's just keep everything at pH 7 even when the fish prefer otherwise. If they are suddenly introduced to a new water composition, they will go into shock, and a symptom of this is spinning around and loss of control.

Not sure how to advise you to acclimatise them though, other than the more regular water changes, as you would really need to know the parameters of the water they come in?

The thing is that it wouldn't be so bad for a cheaper fish, but these things are not cheap at all (well, as long as you don't compare them to Discus!, so I know you really want to make sure things are right before you get more, but to me, sorting the nitrates out would be my first port of call.

Regards
G!

[Laure]

Hi

I would not pay too much attention to your nitrates reading, unless you have a lab grade test kit. If so, then a value of 100 is too high. What other fish do you have? If they seem fine, then perhaps the nitrate reading is not the issue. Still, I would suggest you do weekly water changes of at least 30%, which is common practice for tanks since most of us kinda oversubscribe on the bio load. At least your bio filter is working, otherwise you would not have nitrates. So let's rule out ammonia.

Good practice to acclimatize the fish (any fish, really) would be to take out a cup of water from the bag, and add a cup of water from your tank. Keep doing this every 10 minutes for a period of an hour. Then net them out the bag and introduce them to the tank. Some people use the drip-method (google this), but it is a bit of a mission and the cup method works well enough. The idea is to get the water in the bag close to equal to that in your tank with respect to ph, kh and temperature values. Many fish can handle values outside their natural preference, but not when suddenly introduced to such water.

[Pleco102]

The barbs also needs to be in higher ph in 6.8 to 7.8 range. And like salmonafrica said they need cooler temperature water 25 and down.
Seeing that your other fish aren't showing symptoms it may not be the nitrites.

Hope that helps

[azurekoi]

@JulsM2908 (http://www.tropicalaquarium.co.za/member.php?u=798) - maybe I can shed some light on what happened to you Barbs...

For some inecsplicable reason the main exporter of them packs them VERY badly in my oppinion... we brought in a batch of 35 recently...They where singly packed in TINY bags - held about 75ml of water... Now these guys must have been stuck in there for for 24 hours +...

When we dripped them in,I already noticed that they had some Amonia burn on the outer edges of fins,so once in their new tank,I boosted the oxygenation in tank and left for home... next morning we had one death... acceptable in any shipment...

Lost 2 more over next week,slight bacterial invections.... Then the paw-paw hit the fan... Now,at least the water parameters are more suited to their liking up here in Gauteng,but had a massive outbreak of bacterial septicemia on the little guys... Immediately started them on a course of Terramycin that did the trick - lost one more,but now they are doing fine...
My advice? Wait a while to take them from your LFS(or order them from us...he,he - 4 for R76 each,8 for R56 each...) - these magnificent fish dont travel well...

Make sure your home tanks got plenty oxygen and watch those Nitrates... They are semi reophile species,so Nitrates are not something they would encounter much in nature....

[JulsM2908]

thanks all for the advice - seems like just temp and ph. i changed 50% of the water yesterday on all my tanks. and the ph is still 6 on all my tanks... WEIRD!!

how does Ph actually work - i tested the Ph from the tap water and it seems to be approx 8??

azurekoi - would you be able to ship to CT - do you think they will be all right - considering you say they dont travel well?

[SalmonAfrica]

how does Ph actually work - i tested the Ph from the tap water and it seems to be approx 8??

While the pH in your tap may be pretty high, you may usually find that the pH in your tank is somewhat lower unless you do something to counteract the pH drop by the use of a buffer. Natural processes in your tank lead to pH drops - in particular, the decay and breaking down of organic molecules such as fish droppings, leftover food, dead fish, decaying plants etc.

A pH of 6 isn't necessarily bad, since many of the more popular fish groups originate from places with lower pH, in particular many fish from South America, West Africa and South East Asia. Your pH wasn't far off from your Barb's pH tolerance, so I doubt that had too much effect on your barbs. However, if the pet store had them in a significantly higher pH than you did, and the acclimatization from their tank to your tank was too rapid, shock may have occurred and placed stress on your fish, as has been mentioned earlier

[azurekoi]

Julie - they dont ship well when packed in 75ml water for 36 hoursish... Packed in bigger bags,they will travel very well ... Will PM you some details...

[Altum]

I supplied Juls, fish were part of my inventory for nearly a month.
If it were any other scenario it would make sense to blame on import-shipping stress, or LFS water....as speculated.

It must be a MAJOR negative difference between origin and destination tanks , coupled with acclimation method(or lack of)
Her Congo , and RummyNose Tetras collected simultaneously ,apparently were not affected in that same period......
I attribute this to fish more domesticated, hence increasingly adaptable, inherently tougher.

RedLine Torpedo Barbs appreciate good oxygen, flow, overcapacity biofilters, I keep them at 24-26C in a space-heated fish-room...and also have them comfy at 27-28C in larger home tanks.
I went over the procedure Julie employed...to find out in a call made when I got her sms reporting loss.
At this stage fish were far gone, unfortunately.

Requested and checked detailed records of that stocktank's health for 2weeks prior to fish purchase...and looked at mortality for the species on that basis .
LFS bought from same stock, and experienced no trouble.

I agree ,work on water quality and after 2-3 decent waterchanges, with prepared water.... you should be able to approach these Torpedoes without having them detonate!! :smile1:
BUT take your time before anything new goes in.

You can rest-assured knowing your fish travelled safely, quickly, were Oxygenated and packed for our coldweather.

I'm just a call/mail away for assistance..

[TomK]

Altum

Glad this came up again. Hope you can explain to me. I read that Barbs is alkalophiles.

Alkalophile: Organisms that have an affinity for alkaline media, thus, growing best in such conditions.

alkalophile = fish from alkaline waters, e.g. Malawian or Tanganyikan cichlids, preferring a pH over 7, preferably around 8.

Is it true that Barbs fall in this category.

I know the argument is that fish can adapt, but if the fish is 'built' for an environment, it seems cruel to keep it under those conditions.