LPS Water Parameters

[TomK]

Bought a few female Platis today, from our LPS. Checked the water parameters and found that the pH is 8.5 and the TDS 630. I went back and queried how the water can be 35GH, as our tap water is about 12GH. The answer was that she is adding salt, a tip that another LPS gave her, to combat diseases.

Now, I am not sure if I should leave it like that, or try and rectify the situation. The fish is in and out of her tanks, longest period is 2 weeks. Is this a good thing, killing unwanted stuff, making it safer for the end consumer, or is it an absolute no no and unnecessary cruel to the fish? Will they get stunted? I know NH3 is less toxic at higher TDS, but minimally so.

[Rudi]

If I'm not mistaking,Ammonia is less toxic at lower Ph ranges.Salt can be used to alleviate Nitrite poisoning,but only temporally.
Mollys does enjoy some salt in their water and Platis are hard water fish, but that can be achieved by adding some crushed corral to the filters.
If the LFS water parameters are so much different than the customer's water,this can cause a lot of problems.The acclimatisation time will have to be so much longer and more stressful for the fish.
I would bring this to their attention,there are other ways to prevent disease.Like regular water changes,and for a LFS with a good fish 'turn over' this should not be a problem.

[Vis]

Sounds familiar..... Go around the LPS's here on cleaning day whenever that happens and you will almost see all of them chucking hands full of salt into every tank that is being cleaned. They got an idea somewhere if you add salt the rest is forgotten.

[TomK]

Vis
How bad is it for our fish. Will it harm them permanently in anyway in the short time that they are in those tanks?
Rudi
I hear you

The acclimatisation time will have to be so much longer and more stressful for the fish.
Also if the fish was not subjected to it for that long?

Look, the LPS is into preventing losses. If the fish die later in your tank, it is not really a problem to them. Most people think it is their own fault. So, if salt works for the LPS, they will keep on doing it, unless we can convince them it is not working for them, that there is better ways to do it, etc. If this is really so bad, why? What is their alternatives? WC is not going to cope with disease.

Their game is stock turn. They want that fish out of there as soon as possible. Those that sit a while longer, must stay healthy. They do not have time for QT. Their second mission is to sell the add-ons, like medicine. So it is good for them if the fish gets ill later in your tank. It means extra sales. These are their needs, as a business.

I know the whole song and dance about giving quality, keeping people in the hobby, building a name and all those good things. They do as well, but is it worth their while to care about it? For every person leaving the hobby, someone else is taking his place, as he sells his equipment for next to nothing or even give it away. So, new consumers is replacing the old ones all the time and new ones is born all the time. Another factor is that that LPS is probably an expert in something else than fish, that is his bread and butter.

I have now gone off topic. All I want to know, is the high salt content REALLY THAT BAD that we should fight it hand and tooth, or could we live with it?

[Jenn]

Checked the water parameters


What were ammonia, nitrites & nitrates?

[Vis]

How bad is it for our fish.


The problem for me is that they think this is a way of skipping regular tank maintenance. Most fish can handle salt just fine. I was even surprised how much salt a discus can tolerate when people are treating for some diseases.

The problem might occur at acclimation. Out of the fresh water into the salt water after only getting the temp right.
Now they are caught and some people put them straight back into the freshwater. Proper acclimation is needed which include water and temp.

[Zoom]

I don't have a problem with LPS using salt to keep the fish healthy. It also prevents the transfer of diseases between tanks, and also assists you in not getting disease transfer from them.

What they don't realise it that they add let's say 1 handful of salt today. Do a 30% w/C (if only) a week later, and add another handful. Common maths now says their's 1.66 handful's of salt in their. After a few weeks, this all adds up. This is where I get concerned.

[Jenn]

Proper acclimation is needed

I drip-acclimate new fish. I remove half the bag water, put the fish in a small bowl, then slowly drip the new water into the bowl until it has doubled in volume. I then remove half again and repeat. Then I take the fish out of the water (so that I don't get any evil LFS water in the tank) and put them into the QT. This process takes max 2 hours. Questions:

1. If there is a vast difference in the GH or pH, is that enough time to acclimate the fish to the new water? Surely it should take days for fish to acclimatise to vastly different water parameters.
2. What would be considered a vast difference in GH?
3. The method I use has worked well for me. Have I just been lucky in the past that the LFS water is not too different from my water or are we over-complicating things (again)?

[Vis]

Hi jenn

That is indeed a proper way to do it.

[Go-Big]

I just want to give my 2c on this salt issue.

Pros.
It helps in healing injuries
It helps forming the slime coat
It helps with gill function
It prevents the damage done by nitrite
Help agains some parasites

Cons
Avoid when you have live plants, rather treat fish in hospital tank
Not to use on scaleless fish and corries have very low tolorance towards salt(a very common fish most of us have or had or going to have)

Salt must always be used carefully but there is a place for it in the FW aquarium.

[Go-Big]

The acclimatisation time will have to be so much longer and more stressful for the fish.

Some of the prefered treatments includes a salt solution dip. Placing a fish for up to 30 minutes in a strong solution and placing it right back in its tank. If this is a popular method why is acclimatisation not nessasary after such a dip?

[TomK]

why is acclimatisation not nessasary after such a dip


Good question. I would say it depends for how long the fish has been in that water. 30min is nothing as the fish has not acclimatised to it yet before it is back in its normal water.

Your list of pro's is what make me hesitant to ask the LPS to stop it. Will just have to make sure it does not build up too much. Is TDS an indication? Our must one do a salinity test? Tap water here at about 220TDS.(12GH) The LPS tanks now at 630TDS(35GH). Seems extraordinary high already?

[Go-Big]

30min is nothing


Yes, but remember you take the fish from its tank and without acclimate it into the salt dip. This in itself sould be a shock. Hey but it works apparently.

I think you must make attend to the LPS that the salt would bult up as Zoom explained.